Interview: Seán Carey And Christian Andrews on OPERATION MINCEMEAT
'Creativity actually thrives when there are certain parameters put in place'
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Operation Mincemeat, the winner of the 2023 Olivier Award for Best New Musical, has been taking the Fortune Theatre - and the West End! - by storm with its incredible musical tale of the real-life Operation Mincemeat, in which the British were able to use a dead body as a way to get Hitler and his troops out of Sicily. Now in its second year on the West End, the show has had a cast change, with some new actors coming in and previous covers taking on the roles.
Recently, we had the chance to speak with Seán Carey, who plays Charles Cholmondley, and Christian Andrews, who plays Hester Leggatt. We discussed how they each got involved in Operation Mincemeat, some of their favourite moments in the show and what makes this “little musical that could” so special.
How did you first get started in the world of theatre?
Seán: At school! Did my school plays. I was always quite a hyper child, a class clown and an attention-seeking person, so a teacher recommended that I audition for the school play. I was twelve at the time, and you had to be over fifteen - it was normally the older kids who did the school play. And the geography teacher, Johnny Grant, said, “Right, well come on and do an audition and we'll maybe give you a little smaller part.” And I guess he liked the cut of my jib because he gave me quite a big part, a comic relief role. I did the school plays there for two years with that geography teacher directing. A few years later, he asked me if I could sing and I said I’d never sung before, and he said, “They're doing West Side Story in Navan, the town next door, and they need guys.” So I then joined Navan Musical Society as my amdram and met loads of people who then went on to become big stars. Killian Donnelly, who's a massive West End star, was playing Tony, and he became my mentor over the years and it all went from there!
Christian: Similar to Seán, school and amdram, but my first memories of theatre were watching golden musicals, Rodgers and Hammerstein and all that, with the older members of my family - they were big into South Pacific, The King and I, The Sound of Music, the bold, beautiful films. I fell in love with those. And then school and Amdram, really, and then went to uni and made a career!
And how did you eat first get involved with Operation mincemeat?
Christian: So I saw this man [gestures to Seán] play Charles when they were running in Hammersmith at Riverside Studios. I didn't know anything about the show. I'd had people recommend it who'd seen it in previous runs. I fell in love with it and thought it was the most brilliant thing I've ever seen. Didn't really think much of it - just knew that it was brilliant. And then got an audition for it to be a cover on the show last year. That went very well, did my years as a cover, and now I'm playing the role!
Seán: I had a bit of a mad introduction to the show! It was doing its Riverside run and Rob Hastie had come on board as a director. The idea was they were going to get the script fully finished and then it was going to go to the West End. And then ten days before it opened, Dave Cummings, one of the writers of the show, the original Charles, flew off the handlebars of his bike and broke his collarbone. They had no understudy! So because of my involvement with Mischief Theatre and comedy stuff, my name came up in some room somewhere. And I didn't know anything about the show - didn't know it existed, didn't even know about Operation Mincemeat as a story! I went in, had a feeling that this was going to be something big when I auditioned and got the job - had to learn it very quickly. And then played Charles for two months while Dave recovered. And then thankfully, they decided to keep me keep me around. So I was an understudy last year.
And what made each of you want to be a part of Operation Mincemeat?
Christian: Seeing it! I was able to see a finished version of it before being able to be a part of it, which is actually quite rare when it's still a new show. And I thought that when they transferred to the West End, it was going to be a literal lift from Hammersmith. I thought, “This is perfect. This is absolutely perfect.” And then obviously, there are more bells and whistles they put on for it this time. I was like “Wow, this is amazing.”
Seán: It's such a weird thing because I came into it the way I did and didn't know anything about it, didn't really have time to think. I went “Okay, yeah. Let's do this!” I do remember when I got the job, they gave me some archive footage of the previous run at the Southwark Playhouse. I watched it the day before I was due to start rehearsals and sat with my girlfriend. As I was watching it, I was like, “Oh my god, this is brilliant!” And then I remember hearing Jak Malone sing “Dear Bill” and it just got better and better. When it ended, I turned to my girlfriend and was just like, “This is really good,” and she was like “I know,” and I was like, “No, this is really good!” [Laughs]
And what is it like now taking on the lead roles that you having been covering and understudying?
Christian: It’s super scary! [Laughs] Seán will tell you, I'm a bit of a “Don't think about it and it's not real” kind of vibe. It was a little too scary to think about. Now that I'm realising what's happening, I'm really enjoying it as well! I feel like I’ve been to the Operation Mincemeat Finishing School for Girls - I've been able to play and discover over quite a long period of time, which has been really handy. Which meant that coming to the point of playing it eight shows a week felt a bit more natural than being thrown into it. Because it's a big show! It's a lot to learn, it's a lot to do eight times a week. So it was actually very lucky to get that.
Seán: I mean, Christian Andrews is a nightmare to work with! He makes my job very difficult, having to share a dressing room. [Laughs] No, he's a dream! I couldn't ask for a better person to share a dressing room with. But it's quite a shock to the system because you go from doing it once every five weeks to eight shows a week. It's a very physical show, so getting that show stamina took a little while, but I feel like we're into a really good swing of it now. The writing is so brilliant, that when different actors come on and play the roles, covers and stuff, they bring different versions of the character that work within the framework. Really good writing has a structure that you have to stay within but gives you enough breathing room to make the part your own. So coming in, it's just great when we get to have someone else come on. When people bring different energies, it just keeps it fresh, keeps it fun. It's a lot of fun!
That leads perfectly into my next question! What's it like interacting with different people playing these characters?
Christian: It's really nice! The relationship between Hester and Jean is quite a special one in terms of how the show plays out. Getting to work really closely with Claire [-Marie Hall] is really nice, being able to get to know her last year and still being abel to do it with her this year. And also knowing Holly really well from spending hours on end in our cover room together . . . Holly playing Jean brings a completely different version of that relationship which is really nice as well. The fun one for Hester as always who's playing the Bevan. I've had four Bevans now, which is really nice because some of them are stern, some of them are more soft and some of them are cheekier, which is really nice to respond to.
Seán: It's basically the exact same thing that Chris just said but with Monty because the Monty/Charles relationship is so important, one of the anchor relationships in the show. I would say Hester and Jean and Monty and Charlie are two very core relationships to the overall story. So when you have a different Monty, it changes how you play the role as well. Charles is led a lot, so whoever's leading me will change my performance depending on how that person chooses to lead me. He has a lot of character growth by the end but definitely, at the start, he puts Monty on a pedestal. The really interesting thing is how I respond to that Monty will change depending on who does it. Again, it's great with Holly because we've spent so much downtime together. And we've worked in the same circles for years because Holly is a Mischief veteran as am I. She was in The Comedy About A Bank Robbery in the West End while I was doing it on tour. So in the multiverse, we have played opposite each other! I've always thought she was brilliant. And when I heard Holly was doing the show, I thought, “Yes! I get to work with Holly Sumpton!” She's such a generous actor and she listens so well, while also being hilarious. She's a dream to work with. And I think we have that bond, the four OG covers, when we get to go on together. To see the growth from going into the unknown at our first dress rehearsal to feeling confident in these roles and having an audience give us that energy, it was really special.
Christian: This is my first West End show. I don't know if this is common, but to be able to know those people so intimately and to know so much about them as people . . . To get to work with all of them on stage was super special and really nice. You get to know a lot about someone as an actor when you work with them eight shows a week, but to sit in a room together for a year, you just get to know someone so much more deeply, which is then really special onstage.
And what has it been like to see your own relationships with your characters grow over this past year?
Christian: To have the framework of what Jak did is amazing, as the person that created the role and the aura and the vibe of Hester. She's so specific as a character that you can't deviate away too much from what Jak did because he created this “light” around this person - you know who she is, but you can't really put your finger on exactly the person. You know those people in your life - there aren't a lot of words around it, but there are a lot of feelings. To live in that rather than think about it too much has been really nice, as in playing the show eight times a week and no longer necessarily thinking, “What's my motive?” Just living within this atmosphere, in this aura of this person. It's freed me up a little bit, and it's gone back and forth as well. We've discovered doing eight shows a week can be a little bit relentless and sometimes you can find that things are getting a bit stale, or that you're not quite getting the same response that you might have gotten two weeks ago. So it's nice to be able to have that security within the feeling of a person which you can always revert back to, but that security then does give you the freedom to be able to try different things! It's nice to be able to sit in somebody else's framework, rather than doing all the hard work that Jak did!
Seán: And then you inhabit that spirit, so it always feels unique to you. I was second cover Hester last year, and in some ways, you end up inhabiting your nan, or mannerisms of your grandmother come in there somewhere and your mam and the matriarchs of your life find their way into that character, in that framework. With Charles, I read it and I knew exactly how I wanted to play it, straight away. That rarely happens. My big thing has been, “Where does he start? Where does he finish?” Characters need to have growth and change as you go on. I think about how he stands. At the start, he's quite guarded, and by the end of it, he can stand a bit more upright. Sometimes he reverts back as things get more pressured. I think it's a testament to the originators of the role, the writers of the show, providing a framework for our creativity. Creativity actually thrives when there are certain parameters put in place. And doing it eight times a week is really interesting because we can't do the exact same every day, or we'll go mental. If you end up doing it the exact same way, you end up on autopilot. So how do I find something in the moment, or a new thought or a new thing? The writing is so brilliant that you'll just have a thought like, “Oh my God, how did I never think of this?
Christian: It’s living in that atmosphere that is so meticulously created. There's no question about what it is we're trying to achieve, so you're not having to work out those details. You're very able to live in the world, which which makes things easier to.
Seán: It’s a silly world! It's a fun world as well - you can be a cartoon character. There's so many Family Guy cutaway gags and “Muppet Moments,” as we call it, where two of the characters will be real people, but the people surrounding them are basically Muppets, so you can just ramp things up to a ten and be really silly and weird, while also having a moment of normal.
And what is it like to be in this silly world, but also still playing these characters based on actual people in history?
Christian: The nice thing recently has been the “Finding Hester” stuff. We didn't really know anything about her, apart from her name, really, and what she did from the book, Operation Mincemeat. But just to have details like that she passed her exams in her piano lessons is just really nice, because it gives you a wealth of personality. You go, “Oh, that's the sort of person she was,” and it feels nice that the version of Hester that we have is confirmed by all of that information. That's really nice.
Seán: I was lucky enough to meet Charles Cholmondeley's daughter quite recently, and his grandkids! It's nice when she told me about what he was like, to feel that my choices are confirmed as well. Like yeah, this is what I have in mind. You do it in a heightened way. Charles is a weird one because from a macro level, the show overall, there are these human, straight characters and then these daft, five-second ones like Shoeshine Boy. Big, cartoony things that frighten the real people. Best analogy I could use is Michael Caine playing Scrooge The Muppet Christmas Carol. The way he approached the role was like, “I'm gonna play this as if I'm doing Scrooge at the RSC - I'm going to play it totally straight and allow the cartoon characters to frame that.” We kind of do that. But with Charles and my version of him, I always have this internal thing of the cartoon Charles and the real Charles, depending on the situation. There’s moments where I want to play him very human, and then there's songs like “The Ballad of Willie Watkins” where I literally decide, “Okay, it's time for Tom and Jerry-land.” Incidentally, Charles Cholmondeley loved Tom and Jerry! That was one little bit of information I got from his daughter. She has a memory of him getting very, very excited that there was a Tom and Jerry double bill on the telly. And he actually had a physical reaction to it! So that cartoonish-ness that I bring in certain numbers is still a tribute. But there are moments where I also want to anchor him and make him a real person, too.
And what is it about Operation Mincemeat that you think has gotten it to the level that it’s at now, especially with such a large fan base?
Christian: We [the cast] have spoken about this at length! It's really cool to see something where the piece, the actual work that's already happened, is the star. There's five people who are of equal measure on the stage, playing however many characters have been written, but it's the way in which the show has been developed and, quite literally in the way that it's written that makes it a good piece of theatre. Audiences respond to that because the theatricality of it is really satisfying to watch in a theater and you're not being distracted by big lavish sets or a celebrity. There’s lots of sequins but it's not the glitz and glam version of that. Because you're watching a well-structured story with relatable characters and humour, it’s sugar, spice and everything nice - a perfect mix of theatrical ingredients that makes the show enjoyable at its root, from where where the words are on the page.
Seán: Absolutely! I think we're living in a golden age of new musicals and new writing. It comes out of times of hardship. Creativity thrives in times of hardship - always has, always will. And coming out of COVID and everything, there's this massive outpouring of new shows - you’ve got Two Strangers, Benjamin Button’s coming to The Ambassador this Christmas, Kathy & Stella, Police Cops, all these amazing things. Mincemeat and the Oliver win has opened the floodgates. Winning the award was such a an amazing statement and battle cry to writers to go, “Come on, we're ready! Audiences are ready.” I think it's a brilliant piece of theatre. It's a piece of theatre that was nourished and cultivated, refined, and it shows that a long-lasting good musical needs investment, it needs time, it needs nourishment, and putting it in front of an audience and seeing what works and what doesn't. People love the storytelling . . . It's really funny. The way in which we deliver the story as well - for the most part with very minimal set. Nothing will compare to what you imagine, no matter how much money you spend on lavish sets. Good theatre is where the audience meet the actor halfway. We can't always rely on Marvel-level CGI effects, nor do I think we should, because that's what live theatre is. It's an industry that needs more investment. It's funny and it's a tribute to the women of the war who didn't get the credit that they deserved at the time, of people's contributions to the war who don't get the medals . . . We always believe in the heroes, but for every Superman there's so many other people who are making it happen and and it's everyone's contribution. Glyndwr Michael had such a difficult life and died such a tragic way, but in his death, he saved hundreds of thousands of lives. It gives his life meaning. It's attributed to these people who are in the background. There's a lot of reasons!
Do you have any favourite parts either to perform or watch?
Christian: I really enjoy watching from, on stage, the beginning of when Monty starts trying to convince Bevan that what they've done is worthwhile and to believe in Bill. It's the moment we call “sharing the homework,” where everyone's got their piece of what they've done for the plan. I join the gang a little bit later, and I have the best seat in the house. Right behind Bevan, I get to watch them talk about what they've done with the plan. It's really nice. And I like playing Spilsbury. Stupid. Really good fun. The character I probably relate to the most - at least our version of him!
Seán: I do keep walking in on Christian dissecting dead bodies, like, “Not again!” If he opens a window, it's fine. [Laughs] I love “The Pitch.” That's the moment that it all comes together. It's the scene where all the players have finally been put on the board, and now we're off. We have to introduce everyone and we have to introduce them very organically. But once they're on the board, that's when the show just lifts off. And it's it's got some of my favorite gags! I love “Making A Man.” I love watching Christian do Spilsbury because I'm either a terrified Charlie or a grotesque Cockney - that whole weird sequences just so full of energy. It was actually one of the moments when I first saw the show - there were maybe five key moments - and that was one of them, when Spilsbury comes out with the top hat and a bloody apron, I was like “Yeah, this is my kind of show!”
Do you have a favourite line?
Christian: I've got a favourite nice line. And a favourite funny line. My favorite nice line is “I'm afraid I disagree / You've done a pretty good job with me.” That's always very nice. My favourite funny line is probably, “Does a newt have a penis?” Says it all really, doesn’t it?
Seán: Yes, it does! People at stagedoor always ask us to write this [our favourite lines], and I need to find a new favourite line because it’s too long to write - takes up half the page! But my favourite lyrics are, “You want homicide or suicide? / Or can't decide? / Well come inside and see.” It’s Sondheim-level genius. It's so clever, but far too long to write on a programme! [Laughs] I need to get a quicker one to write! Yeah, that's my favorite one.
Christian: “Hello.” That's my favorite line! [Laughs]
Seán: “Oh no!”
“Yay!”
[Laughs]
What do you hope audiences take away from Operation Mincemeat?
Christian: When I first saw the show at Riverside, I was like, “This is why I like theatre.” In its simplicity and its heart, you get everything. When I was watching the show, I never wanted someone to fall through a trapdoor - I didn't want the set to turn into this big something else. I never needed anything else, because the way that it's done through humans is so interesting. I hope that audiences come away from the show having thoroughly enjoyed a very theatrical experience,
Seán: I hope they laugh a lot! And I hope they come away with a sense of shared humanity because we're living in a very polarised, divided time. What this show does really well is that it acknowledges that the architects of this plan had grew up with and had certain advantages, but they also did a really wonderful thing and saved us from a pretty bad guy. Being able to poke fun at oneself, while also acknowledging great things. And being in a building of 400 people with different opinions and viewpoints and everything, as a collective, you all just laugh together. We really need that desperately.
And finally, how would you describe Operation Mincemeat in one word?
Christian: Oh my god . . .
Seán: That's three words, Christian! [Laughs]
Christian: Because it's been my theme for this last half an hour, I'm gonna say theatrical, in the best sense of the word. It's theatrical magic created with absolutely nothing. Like you [Seán] were saying earlier, nothing will beat someone's imagination. We're feeding them the bread crumbs and they turn into a loaf.
Seán: L.Y.A.O.B.A.Y.M.C. - “Laugh your ass off but also you might cry.” Or yellow!
[Laughs]
Operation Mincemeat is currently running through 8 March 2025 at the Fortune Theatre
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