Interview: Maggie Norris Talks PHOENIX RISING At Smithfield Car Park

Director Maggie Norris is embarking on a new journey with Phoenix Rising. She explains why she started The Big House and how vital it is to give support to youngsters leaving care.

What led you to pursue theatre as a profession?

I didn't come from a family of actors, but my dad started taking me to the theatre and he inspired me. At that time I was living in Bolton - there wasn't a huge amount to do for a young girl and the theatre was exciting. So it happened at a very early age, I was hooked. I started out just ushering, volunteering at theatres - it began there really. I didn't train, I just started to apply for work and I was very lucky.

What was your first professional job?

I played the saxophone just enough to get a job as an actress and musician with a tiny touring company in Birmingham. I learned on the job, which is what I've always done. I spent a number of years acting and doing a lot of theatre, and then quite a lot of television.

But actually the first ever job in the theatre wasn't even acting: I was on the crew at the Royal Exchange. Of course now it's very common, there are lots of women, but back then it was highly unusual. I became first technician, which was also very unusual. The Royal Exchange is a beautiful theatre, it's extraordinary, and because I was a girl I was really watched to see if I could really hack it on the crew. It was very lovely to go back there as an actress later.

What was it like, learning on the job? Did you find yourself at a disadvantage?

I think I was probably terrible when I started out, thinking back now. But doing weekly touring in theatre at that time was fantastic training. I was touring to old people's homes and things like that, which was quite tough. I learned as I went along and I got better with each job, just watching the people who were brilliant and learning from them.

What did you learn from that first tour?

That I never wanted to get old and I'd never want to be in a care home! I found them really scary places.

You founded The Big House to help youngsters who just got out of care - how did you get involved in this kind of issue?

I directed a production in the West End at the Garrick Theatre called Bad Girls, based on a TV series. I did a lot of research in prison in order to direct it and I found myself fascinated by the people I met there, and wondered how I could help them afterwards.

Then, I did some work with ex-offenders in His Teeth, which was a massive learning curve: directing in a prison in Britain is quite hard! I had a disappearing cast every day, I never had who I'd called, who I wanted to work with, they'd been put in a different prison, or they'd been sent down to isolation, or they'd gone to the doctor's. That was really good training for me because I had to work with just what was given to me, it was an extraordinary experience.

What I realised was that a very high percentage of care-leavers, I think 40% of the under-21s, go from care to custody. So I looked at what was available for people who have just got out of care and I realised that, although there are a number of initiatives trying to get them to employment or training, there was very little support for their emotional wellbeing. If you've experienced a lot of abuse or trauma in early childhood, it's very difficult to cope if you don't deal with that.

A lot of young people flail out of control when they leave care because they haven't got any support around them. I set up The Big House in response to that need. Drama is at the heart of it, but we also pack a lot of life skills with long-term support and counselling around it. The people we work with can deliver a performance that's hugely empowering when only a few months before they had come to us alienated, angry, frustrated.

We just watch them blossom in a very structured and loving environment. We don't audition anybody, people are referred through a leaving-care team, probation, other youngsters, people who think they might need it. We support a lot of youngsters who've fallen through the cracks of the social care system, who may be homeless and getting nothing. We don't do personal stories because we want to safeguard them, but we let them decide the themes we are going to explore. They have a really strong bond with the material they're performing - it can be quite raw and visceral.

How did Phoenix came about?

It was the first play we did. The theme emerged from one of the cast members - he wanted us to look at MS because people don't realise that young people can get it. He died this year, about three months ago, so we are doing this production as a tribute to him.

It's an incredible play that moved people. MS is at the heart of it, but we also look at the whole journey of a young person who's leaving care and what happens when they flail out of control. Although there are dark and moving elements, it's also a very funny and inspiring play. The main character learns something very profound from his diagnosis, which helps him communicate and relate to other people.

Is Phoenix Rising different than the original production?

Very, yes. Each company is different, they bring their own energy, their own light to it. We also have a male lead as opposed to a female lead, which has quite a profound impact on the story. The reason that the lead was a girl the first time around is that we wanted to be absolutely sure that there wasn't any personal involvement, to safeguard the person who inspired the play. We felt that, in the light of his death, it would be nice to have a boy playing that part. Lots of new things, lots of changes.

The performances are going to take place in an underground car park underneath Smithfield Meat Market, which is an unusual setting. Has this had an impact on your work?

It was really important for me that the audience goes on a journey with the central character. Because he's been shunted around to different placements, I wanted them to feel that displacement in space. They are following him around and feeling that sort of disjointed journey. I also wanted them to feel some discomfort as well, so the space they will walk into will not be cheery, there won't be a bar, and a box office. I think it will be quite a scary space, actually.

That's the experience of the central character when he's leaving: he's got no support, he's having to deal with real life, and we wanted the audience to experience that too. Smithfield's Meat Market is such a beautiful landmark in London and going right underground in that incredibly atmospheric space is exciting. It was a challenge - we had to put electricity in it! It'll be interesting to see if the traders from the meat market come and see the show, I really hope they will. It'll be quite an adventure for the audience.

Why do you think it's important to restage it now?

It's not the same production, so that's the first thing. It's been reinvented, which is why it's called Phoenix Rising. The problem of MS is one we need to shine a light on - it's a problem that affects young people in ways that most don't realise. Because the venue is totally different and the cast is completely new, there's such a fresh energy to it, which is redefining the show.

I think the main reason to restage it is for a family who are grieving and bereaved. It's something we can do to celebrate a person and his spirit. The lovely thing about him is that despite the tremendous sadness that came with such a terrible diagnosis, his spirit was so funny and infectious. He went on such an incredible journey and sharing it again seems like the right thing to do.

Have the family been involved in the show?

Yes, and it's a difficult one because we're not showing the real story - that would be too invasive. However, we're really capturing his spirit and he's now as present as ever with Aston McAuley, who plays the central character. They share a very mischievous spirit.

Phoenix Rising is running underneath Smithfield Market 8 November-2 December

Photo credit: Sonia Archer

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