Today we are talking to a multi-award-winning stage and screen musical master all about the forthcoming Fathom presentation of his new musical FROM HERE TO ETERNITY premiering in movie theaters nationwide early next month, the sensationally sharp and affable Sir Tim Rice. Outlining his impetus for pursuing a musical adaptation of the James Jones acclaimed novel upon which the multi-Academy Award-winning 1953 film is based, Rice reveals what drew him to the project as well as what viewers can expect from the dense, complex and majestic score created along with composer Stuart Brayson for the enterprise. Additionally, Rice sheds some light on the specifics of crafting the show, with a special emphasis on the controversial and progressive elements contained within the material. Plus, Rice shares specific examples of how some of the biggest showstoppers in the rich and varied score were crafted, as well as his impressions of the impeccable cast featured in the stage version, and, now, the Fathom film - and preliminary prospective plans for an American production next year, too. Furthermore, Rice reflects on his work with three recently deceased entertainment icons: Robin Williams, on ALADDIN; Lauren Bacall, on THE FAN; and Richard Attenborough on the JOSEPH & THE AMAZING TECHNICOLOR DREAMCOAT film and more. Also, Rice shares new details on the forthcoming 30th anniversary 3-disc special edition of CHESS set to be released later this year. All of that and much, much more awaits!
More information on Fathom's presentation of FROM HERE TO ETERNITY on October 2, 5 and 9 is available at the official site here.
Fight The Fight PC: First off, I have to say that FROM HERE TO ETERNITY has such an exceptional social media campaign.
TR: We have an enormous social media following, too! We've actually just been doing some interviews today for a video piece for the American screening coming up.
PC: FROM HERE TO ETERNITY is so fantastically filmed - 8 cameras, correct?
TR: I think we actually had 9, but, yes - you are spot-on.
PC: What do you think of Fathom filmings in general and the new way in which people can experience live shows like this in movie theaters?
TR: Well... [Clears Throat. Pause.] it's a whole new world. [Laughs.]
PC: Says the man who wrote the Oscar-winning ALADDIN song!
TR: It really is, it really is.
PC: How did the Fathom filming of FROM HERE TO ETERNITY come about in the first place?
TR: Well, we were approached to do it - which was very, very encouraging. Omniverse, which is a film company, approached us and asked if they could film it because they had liked the show. We got very good reviews, but we didn't have the commercial success that we hoped for in the West End. So, what we are going to do and what our plan is: this video version will be shown in America and we are hoping that that, in turn, will lead to a new production which we are planning for America.
PC: Will you be rewriting the show at all for American audiences?
TR: It won't be quite the same - the songs, the book and the storyline will be basically the same, but I think we can stage it even more excitingly in America. We want to find a way to bring it to Broadway, but maybe not go straight in - do an out-of-town production or Off-Broadway or something. So, we are just beginning discussions with various producers and directors in order to achieve this.
PC: The complex musical staging comes across so excellently in the film.
TR: Yes, yes - Javier [De Frutos] did a wonderful job with all of that. It's very nice of you to say that.
PC: What precisely drew you to FROM HERE TO ETERNITY? You and Stuart Brayson were friends, correct?
TR: Yes, I had known Stuart for a very long time and this, of all the amazing things that he has written, this was the one that grabbed me. He brought me some songs that he had written based on the book and I thought, "Well, the songs are so strong already, now we need the story," so we brought in
Bill Oakes to do the book, based on
James Jones's masterpiece. And, so, after that, it all came together.
PC: And how!
TR: It's quite a sophisticated show. You know, it's very hard these days to get people into a brand new musical that doesn't have a backstory or a back catalogue, but I thought it worked very well and I am very hopeful that the screening in America will be the gateway to getting the show established in the States. After all, it is an American story, and, to be brutally honest, FROM HERE TO ETERNITY as a title and even Pearl Harbor itself doesn't mean a lot to young English people these days. I still think it has a great resonance in America, though.
PC: The performances all come across so authentically, especially the soldiers and their routines. Is it true that the actors were put through boot camp, more or less?
TR: Yes. I'm not sure exactly what he is called, but we had an army drill sergeant and he certainly put the guys through their paces! They had two or three weeks of boot camp before they even got going on the dances, which I think paid off in quite a good way.
PC: "Something In Return" evokes CHESS in its intricacy. What originally drew you to the material?
TR: Well, it was more or less Stuart's music that was the inspiration that made me want to be involved in the first place. He made some great demos and brought them to me and I listened to them and thought, "Whatever else, these are great songs. If we can find the right team to tell the story around these wonderful songs then this could be very exciting." There were so many good tunes, and, as you say, in a piece like "Something In Return" they could be mixed and intertwined in interesting ways. But, basically, it's the songs that got everything going. Then, bring in the rest of the team and we got something that I think turned out rather well.
PC: Robert Lonsdale is such a fantastic discovery! Did he just come in to audition or did you find him some other way?
TR: He just came in and auditioned. We first came across him in the workshop and he did two workshops for us. Then, as he began doing the part more, we realized, "This guy is easily good enough for the West End." He kept getting stronger and stronger in the role. By the time we came actually to cast it, that was one part that we didn't have to look for. You know, it was a long process in casting everybody else, but in the end we achieved it. Robert was always a really reliable centerpiece for the whole show.
PC: He nails his American accent, as well - as do the rest. Easier said than done!
TR: You're right, he does - and we were all a bit worried! We thought, you know, "Are these American accents OK?" But, every American who came in, not one said, "The accents are bad." Not one person. Most people, like you, said it was quite realistic. I guess it was a bit of a risk to do it with all British actors, I suppose, but they all delivered.
PC: Was "Fight The Fight" in the show from the beginning? It appears to be so integral to the themes of the story and the score itself.
TR: Well, funnily enough, "Fight The Fight" was originally called "Living My Life"...
PC: No way!
TR: Yes, it was. You see, originally, Stuart wrote 15, 20 songs for the show, of which half of them survived. They were all very strong songs, but sometimes the storyline didn't need the song. For those songs, he had written all the lyrics. My first intention was not to get involved in any rewriting, because, frankly, the lyrics were really good and the music was sensational. But, once we got going and we got
Bill Oakes in to do the book, we needed several new songs because obviously there were several new scenes that Stuart had not contemplated that would be in the finished version. Since we needed several new songs, I'm glad to say that everybody - including Stuart - wanted me to do it.
PC: Thank goodness you stepped in, then. What can you tell me about "Another Language"?
TR: In fact, "Another Language" was one of the last songs that we wrote - that actually never existed in any form before we got the team together. As I said, though, "Fight The Fight" was originally called "Living The Life". When it came to the point that it was decided that I was going to do the lyrics, I rewrote quite a big chunk of them - but, I was always inspired by the original title or the odd great line that Stuart had written.
PC: Can you give me some examples?
TR: Well, for instance, the song "Run Along Joe" was his title originally. Other songs I kept whole verses or I'd just start again with - it was an interesting challenge, especially because Stuart was the initial driving force behind the whole thing. But, then, it was also great to sit down with Stuart and write a brand new song from scratch - like "More Than America" or, my favorite, "Ain't Where I Wanna Be Blues". That one was written in about 45 minutes.
PC: Did you intentionally want to evoke the songs of Frank Sinatra and Nat King Cole with "Marking Time" and the sound of Warden's material in general - in order to pay homage to the specific era?
TR: Funnily enough, Darius [Campbell] does sound a bit like Nat King Cole on it, doesn't he?! Yes, it was that sort of thing. We wanted the whole thing to have a rock sort of feel, but, at the same time, it is set in 1940 and 1941. The part of Warden has to be vocally and physically different from that of Pruitt - they are both GIs, but Warden has been around the block a bit longer and heading more into the Sinatra end of things, if you like, whereas Pruitt is much more
Bruce Springsteen or Eddie Cochran or something.
PC: Were any songs added late in the game to outright replace a pre-existing number that you remember?
TR: Well, the end of Act One wasn't working initially - we had a song which didn't quite cut it, and, in the end, we wrote fairly much last-minute "More Than America", which summed up much more than just a simple love song. It was supposed to emphasize the fact that that just because we are miles away from home, what we've got is something that is larger and not just confined to Hawaii - you know, it's something bigger than being homesick and bigger than something we've ever experienced before; all of those things are in the song. And, I think it's one of Stuart's best tunes, too - you know by the time you get to the second or third chorus that the song is a hit.
PC: Without a doubt.
TR: But that wasn't even in the show in early previews. The first few shows had a different song, whose title I've conveniently forgot - and which obviously wasn't very good.
PC: It evokes "God Bless America" and other patriotic themes of the era.
TR: That was the intention. Also, it would be great if we could find a fantastic American singer to cover that one. We are going to try to get some great American artists to do some of the songs.
PC: Do you have any dream casting in mind? Justin Timberlake for Pruitt?
TR: Well, if
Justin Timberlake is free he can have the part! [Big Laugh.]
PC: Siubahn Harris also makes a big impression. Is she a newcomer?
TR: Yes, I think this was Siubahn's first West End appearance - her first leading role, at least. I agree - she was wonderful. Both she and Robert recently performed in a concert of my songs at the Royal
Festival Hall [TIM RICE: A LIFE IN SONG] and they were both brilliant. Robert actually sang "30 Year Man" from FROM HERE TO ETERNITY and Siubahn sang a song that I actually wrote many years ago with
Rick Wakeman - it was interesting to see that she coped with it very well; it's a difficult song.
PC: "Love Me Forever Today" shows such palpable rapport.
TR: Yes, they are wonderful together on that, too.
PC: "I Love The Army" is a true black comedy showstopper. How did that come about? It has quite a fair share of your trademark acerbic wit, clearly.
TR: "I Love The Army" is another song that was written once we had the team together that didn't really exist before in any form. Stuart and I wrote that one together from scratch. That was one of the songs where the book was particularly helpful - the book has such wonderful language with the expressions that the GIs use and everything. It was a great opportunity to make the role of Maggio really significant - he is the fifth lead, after all; there really are five leads in the show. Six, if you count Holmes. Ryan [Sampson], who did the part in London, was so good - he's another guy that we had from the workshop. From day one we thought, "We'll never find anybody better than him." I will tell you, we did find some people who were rather good, I have to say, but Ryan held the place and we are mighty glad that he did.
PC: What a comedic and dramatic tour de force for him.
TR: Yes, there are a few quite funny lines - obviously, we didn't play it for laughs quite so much, but there is some ironic stuff in there. I mean, I think that there are quite a few good laughs in the script, generally, though - we tried to lighten it in places if we possibly could. But, it is, basically, a grown up story.
PC: Speaking of which, the strong language and use of the n-word was somewhat surprising, though all too befitting of the story being told. Were you reticent to include it?
TR: Well, again, it's all in the book and it's all a part of the time. I mean, today, THE BOOK OF MORMON gets away with it... and more!
PC: Touché!
TR: We weren't trying to shock or anything - we were just trying to stay true to the book. We were portraying the characters as
James Jones created them.
PC: Was part of the inspiration to pursue this as a musical to reflect the progressive and pertinent themes of the book? Obviously, the film adaptations are significantly tamer and less gritty.
TR: Yes, absolutely. I think that the 1953 film is very good - a brilliant film; and it won several Oscars, including Best Picture. I would never remotely say that it was a bad film - it wasn't. Obviously, it was of its time and they were unable to deal with certain aspects of the story because it was 1953 and if they attempted it the film would have never gotten made or gotten shown. But, 60 years on, we can tackle these topics. You know, it's a massive, massive book, and, whether it's the 1953 movie or our more contemporary version, you are forced to leave huge chunks of the book out.
PC: Par for the course.
TR: We chose depicting the gay bar and using the language and the fact that the place where Pruitt meets Lorene is a brothel rather than just a casual bar - all these things we were able to do, so we made it more authentic.
PC: Were there any specific moments from the novel that you were dying to musicalize that ended up not making it in the final finished show?
TR: Well, I'm sure - you'd probably have to ask
Bill Oakes about that; about great scenes from the book that we didn't include. But, I think the most important thing to me was to get strong characters and to follow them all the way through and see strong development. I think we covered most of the bases - you know, there's a lot of barracks life; there's the stockade; the hole; Karen at home; the brothel. I think we got all of the key things in - I don't think there's too much that we missed out on. But, when you've got a book of 61 chapters or whatever it is, you are not going to get every single bit of it into a two and a half hour show.
PC: The score is truly epic in its scope and presentation. Would you be interested in pursuing a concept album?
TR: Well, as you know, we did record a couple of the songs as sort of commercial pop songs - "Another Language" and "Fight The Fight" - and I would enjoy the challenge of trying to do a sort of studio album of the whole piece, which maybe someday we will do. But, I think that the key thing to do right now is get it established onstage in America - that is our key target for the next several months.
PC: Also, I would love to know about the deluxe CD/DVD edition of the CHESS concept album coming out this year?
TR: Yes, I've just been going through checking the booklets to make sure the lyrics are right. The original album is coming out and we are including a few bonus tracks - stuff that didn't make it onto the original album; mainly instrumental tracks and things. And, there is a third disc with a DVD of the four or five pop videos we did at the time - "One Night In Bangkok" and "I Know Him So Well" and "Nobody's Side" and a few others. Basically, that will be a fun thing for collectors. I think there is a documentary on the making of CHESS on the DVD, too. [Sighs.] It's been 30 years - it's frightening. [Laughs.]
PC: CHESS got a shout-out in THE HANGOVER II with Mike Tyson's cover of "One Night In Bangkok", of course. Did you see that?
TR: Yes, I know! I rang up Benny [Andersson] and I said, "I've just heard the worst-ever version of any of our songs - and it's by
Mike Tyson! But, I want you to be the one to tell him it's a heap of crap." [Big Laugh.]
PC: That's so funny. Have you had any involvement with the new animated film version of JOSEPH & THE AMAZING TECHNICOLOR DREAMCOAT being produced by Elton John's company?
TR: Well, we've got a meeting coming up soon about it. Elton's company is doing it and I think the Really Useful Group, which is Andrew [Lloyd Webber]'s company, is co-producing it. So, yes - we will be involved very much in making sure they get the words right.
PC: Given her recent passing, I would love to know how you became involved with writing songs for Lauren Bacall in THE FAN?
TR: Oh, right -
Lauren Bacall. Well,
Robert Stigwood was producing the film of THE FAN and he approached Marvin [Hamlisch]. I had previously done a couple of songs with Marvin for a film called THE ENTERTAINER - a television film that we did. And, so, Robert asked if Marvin and I would write a couple of songs for this film, THE FAN, that he was producing. The big song was "Hearts, Not Diamonds" - that was the name of the song.
PC: Of course. A smoky showstopper!
TR: Yes, yes - it was great to meet her and to do something with her like that; the great
Lauren Bacall.
PC: So, "Hearts, Not Diamonds" was written specifically for Bacall?
TR: Oh, yes. I remember it had to be a sort of Broadway show song, but for a show that wasn't necessarily brilliant.
PC: Quite a challenge - at least for you and Marvin Hamlisch, given your pristine pedigrees.
TR: It wasn't such a bad song, though - I mean, it was a bit deliberately corny and old fashioned. If I remember correctly, there were a few other songs we did, as well.
PC: It would be fabulous for someone new to do that material someday.
TR: Yes, that would probably be quite interesting.
PC: I was curious: did you get to work with Robin Williams at all while writing ALADDIN?
TR: Well, I was brought into ALADDIN quite late, when
Howard Ashman died. I think that most of
Robin Williams's stuff had already been done by then. Honestly, I don't think I ever actually met him - I mean, I might have met him for like one second somewhere, but I don't remember.
PC: What a shame.
TR: He was absolutely brilliant in the film, though. He exclusively sang Howard's songs in the movie - "A Friend Like Me". Obviously, you know, "A Whole New World" was not sung by the Genie. [Laughs.]
PC: Another icon recently deceased that you collaborated with was Richard Attenborough - quite memorably, on the film of JOSEPH & THE AMAZING TECHNICOLOR DREAMCOAT.
TR: Yes, I actually worked with him quite a lot - I mean, he did that part in JOSEPH, which was a great honor for us; but, it's literally six lines or something.
PC: Where else did you work together?
TR: Well, firstly, we worked together an awful lot on
Capitol Radio - he was chairman of a radio station here which I was a presenter on for a while. But, more importantly, I was chairman on a board of trustees called
Foundation For Sport & The Arts, which was a charitable entity which existed for 21 years and I was chairman and Dickie was one of the trustees. So, I used to work with him a lot on that, but I didn't work with him that much artistically, to be honest. I was a huge fan of his. He was also very helpful to my son who is very interested in being in the movie business. I knew him pretty well, but I never did a major show or film with him [besides JOSEPH] - we were in contact a lot, though; I was in close touch with him.
PC: I saw your heartfelt tweet about his passing, as well.
TR: Oh, I'm glad you saw that, too. I don't tweet very much these days - I don't really like doing public things like that - but, if you don't tweet then people think you don't give a stuff. So, it's important. I said what I meant. But, sometimes this tweeting is because you think, you know, "Oh, I better tweet about that or people will think I don't care."
PC: Constantine Maroulis recently performed "It's Easy For You", which you wrote for Elvis, at THE LORD & THE MASTER concert that I directed. Are you pleased when people cover it? Do they ever?
TR: Funnily enough, there was a cover version by a country star once - who did an Elvis-type cover of it - and, then, I had a concert of my songs at the Royal
Festival hall recently that I was talking about earlier and we had a very popular comedian here called
Rob Brydon - who has a really wonderful singing voice - and he did "It's Easy For You" at that because I wanted to feature one or two songs of mine that aren't very well-known. So, he did the song.
PC: And what a totally heartbreaking song it is! It's a personal favorite, I take it?
TR: Yes. As you said, it was written for Elvis and thankfully he recorded it - I quite like the song. Rob, who is a genuinely big star here, I met on a television show several years ago and when I met him, before he said hello, he said, [Sings.] "You don't have to mind that's over," and he sang the song to me! And, I said, "Blimey!" and he said, "Oh, I love that song! I'm a great Elvis fan - I know every single Elvis song backwards and yours is my favorite!" So, years later, I told him he had to come and sing it in this concert - and, he did.
PC: Will this concert be shown on TV?
TR: Yes, it is going to be broadcast on the BBC just before Christmas, I think. It's a fun show.
PC: Can you give us a preview?
TR: Well, I mean, all the obvious ones are there - like I said, we've got Elvis and JOSEPH and everything since.
PC: Do you perform yourself in it? "Going Going Gone" from THE LIKES OF US, or a Pharoah turn, perhaps?
TR: [Laughs.] I actually sang my very first song, "That's My Story", which I actually wrote the tune for - I just did a verse of that as a bit of a joke.
PC: It's a shame THE LIKES OF US doesn't get done more - what a fabulous score.
TR: A few schools have done it, but it's never really been properly finished despite that recording we did a few years ago. It's quite a fun show for schools to do, I think. Also, it demonstrates the early stages of our writing - I think THE LIKES OF US music by Andrew is actually pretty good, but I don't think the lyrics are quite right.
PC: What's next?
TR: All I've really got going at the moment is FROM HERE TO ETERNITY in America - and I really hope the screening will get that going for us.
PC: This was an absolute joy, Sir Tim - FROM HERE TO ETERNITY is sensational onscreen and viewers are in for a treat.
TR: I'm flattered by your interest, Pat - and your support of FROM HERE TO ETERNITY, too. Thank you, thank you. Bye.
