InDepth InterView: Lynne Taylor-Corbett & THE SEVEN DEADLY SINS - Part II

Staging one of the theatre's most unique and unclassifiable pieces, Brecht & Weill's THE SEVEN DEADLY SINS for the New York City Ballet, starting May 11 and running through May 15, is just the latest act in a career made up of anomalies, seemingly built upon always attempting to do the impossible - from her Broadway debut, trying to bring balletic bravado to Trevor Nunn's terminally troubled 1988 musical CHESS (a project begun under the guidance of Michael Bennett before his death), up through the trying-but-Tony-winning TITANIC in 1997 and, this century, SWING! starring Ann Hampton Callaway and Laura Benanti and a succession of successful regional ballets and theatre pieces - the gifted and dynamic director/choreographer Lynne Taylor-Corbett continues to challenge herself, her peers and audiences with each of her audacious new endeavors. THE SEVEN DEADLY SINS, starring two-time Tony-winning Broadway legend Patti LuPone as Anna I, is a particularly problematic play - or is it a musical? Or, is it a ballet? A song-spiel? - and in this revealing and engaging discussion, Ms. Taylor-Corbett and I attempt to deduce the themes, analyze the structure and look back at the authors' lives to gain insight into the perplexing America painted by Brecht and Weill in the forty-minute-long theatrical experiment. Also, in this concluding portion of our conversation, Lynne and I take a look back at her long and varied career and she generously shares her thoughts on where the place of dance is in the twenty-first century, the exhilaration of working with a theatre artist like Patti LuPone, her own inspirations and formative experiences in the theatre, the legacy of Michael Powell and THE RED SHOES, the theatre versus the dance world, her son Shaun's career, and much, much more! Further information on THE SEVEN DEADLY SINS - including tickets - is available here.

Part II - Brecht, Weill, Balanchine & THE SEVEN DEADLY SINS

PC: Tell me everything about doing THE SEVEN DEADLY SINS with Patti LuPone.

LTC: Well, this is my third ballet for the New York City Ballet.

PC: CHIAROSCURO was first, yes?

LTC: Yes, they did it for many years, actually. They did it until Jacques retired and then we did it one more time with Sebastian Marcovicci.

PC: What drew you, now, to THE SEVEN DEADLY SINS?

LTC: Well, first of all, for anyone who needs to fill in any blanks there is a phenomenal essay by Kim Kowalke of the Weill Foundation. He knew Lenya and he has been the sort of uber-force at the Weill Foundation all these years. He's really helped me a lot.

PC: What have you learned?

LTC: Oh, I've learned a lot - just from what I've learned from the essay and what I've discussed with him.

PC: What recordings did you use for research? There's the Marianne Faithful and the Lenya and the Teresa Stratas.

LTC: Well, Teresa Stratas is the more operatic interpretation. Then, of course, Marianne is more in the Patti realm with a more theatre voice. And, Lenya is Lenya.

PC: What did you learn about the history?

LTC: Well, the two men, Brecht and Weill, were estranged somewhat at this time. They had a terrible fight after MAHAGONNY and, according to Kim's essay, Brecht tried to push Weill down the stairs and said, "You are a fake Richard Strauss!" (Laughs.)

PC: That's hilarious. Brecht was a wild man.

LTC: Yeah, anyone who loves Brecht would find this essay very interesting. What happened was that Weill went to Jean Cocteau and asked him to write a libretto for this and it was a commission. And, then, Edward James was impresario who commissioned it in the hopes he could win back his girlfriend. So, the whole motivation for the piece came out of this guy's love for a woman.

PC: As many works of art are!

LTC: Exactly. (Laughs.) So, he commissioned Weill and Weill went to Cocteau and Cocteau said it wasn't for him. So, Weill contacted Brecht in Germany as sort of a fall-back. And, it was 1933 so it was a big year and Hitler was coming so Brecht got out of Germany and came to Paris for seven days. They wrote it in seven days.

PC: How astounding.

LTC: Yeah, can you believe that? Seven days. So, the three of them had some very fierce arguments because Weill and James wanted it to be about the schism of the woman and Brecht very much wanted for it to be about society. So, they finally sort of found a way to make it about both.

PC: How - in your estimation - did they achieve that?

LTC: Well, I think it's intended to be about the schism of the woman as a metaphor for capitalism and loss of the soul and so forth.

PC: What happened next in the development?

LTC: Well, they hashed it all out and then Brecht left and he and Weill never wrote together again. So, then when he left, Weill adapted it to music - because, of course, you have to adapt it. Then, I guess, Brecht came to the premiere, but it was pretty much the end of their relationship at that point.

PC: What do you think of that history?

LTC: Well, I talk about it to the dancers because I think it's important for them to share in the research. It's so interesting - I mean, at one point, apparently, Weill was having an affair with the scenic designer's wife! It's all in the essay - I'm not making it up. I am such a dull person compared to these people (Laughs.) They were just walking the walk - all this passion. They were just out there.

PC: And then throw Balanchine into the mix!

LTC: Right! He had a group of Russian dancers and a group of French dancers who didn't much like each other. I think it was in Lenya's book that there was just this studio and people would show up in the evening to work.

PC: It was very casual.

LTC: Yeah, it's so unusual compared to today. Very casual.

PC: What other facts have you dug up in your vast research?

LTC: Oh, I got so many books from so many people. In one of the books, there were actual handwritten letters from Lenya in the back to one of the authors pf the book - Karin. It was just so beautiful to hold them in my hands!

PC: I can only imagine.

LTC: I brought them to the Weill Foundation so they could scan them. I really felt like I did due diligence and then I felt like I had to put it aside so I could then experience it all in my own way. Karin kept saying, "Forget the past! Do it your own way."

PC: It's been said that to do Brecht you must be aware of and know all Brecht.

LTC: (Laughs.) Well, of course, I've seen a lot and I've read a lot about him. I mean, just sitting and talking to Kim - Brecht's whole life was really based on protest and really ripping the scab off of genteel society. I have really delved into the different translations of his work and how they address it.

PC: The W.H. Auden is most famous.

LTC: The Auden is the one the Weill Foundation puts their stamp of approval on. That's the one they put in the books for singers.

PC: How has working with that text influenced the process for this production?

LTC: You know, there have been times that there have been lines in the text that bother Patti and me. Of course, she also did MAHAGONNY, so she certainly knows Weill. So, I have asked Kim and he has provided alternatives based on the different translations of something. I'm not sure if we've used any of them, but I think that that's the wonderful thing about having the leading expert in the world on Weill to go back to. Plus, all the research is right there at the foundation on 22nd Street.

PC: Is it true "Alabama Song" was originally written for THE SEVEN DEADLY SINS?

LTC: That's what Lenya says in her book. You know, that's a funny thing in Kim's essay - a lot of information weaves in and out of all the books. But, did you know that Brecht and Weill never were in America when they wrote this? They saw the book and the movies and they romanticized the names of these places. They said, "Oh, Baltimore! This is great naming!" I mean, Boston is not the place you would think Lust would necessarily occur! (Laughs.)

PC: Not with those accents.

LTC: (Laughs.) For some reason they just became enamored with these names and that these were cool places.

PC: Alaska Joe in MAHAGONNY, too.

LTC: Yes, exactly. What I find so fascinating - and now it is familiar to me because I know it forwards and backwards - is trying to find your way into your own country through foreign people who had never been here and seeing their take on it. As a matter of fact, when we were researching on how to approach this production, we settled on very paired-down moments. You know, we aren't doing big scenic pieces per se - we want the stage to open. We have a lot of props and a lot of drops. But, I do have to say, I am just enamored of him.

PC: Tell me about designing the vision for this obscure piece.

LTC: What's interesting is that as we worked it got simpler and simpler. It became just gestures. I think it's really successful because it doesn't overwhelm the storytelling with symbolism. And, working with the costume designer was the same. She's just a really sensitive designer - and she's an ex-dancer, so she's really good with bodies and color and how things feel. And, the lighting, too. Wonderful people - and so supportive. It's a great team that you can really turn to and talk to someone and ask, "Is this clear?"

PC: What problems does this piece pose?

LTC: Well, for me, the most challenging thing is that the dance sections are very short so you have to be very, very clear.

PC: The whole evening is less than an hour.

LTC: Oh, my gosh - it's only about forty minutes!

PC: I've heard they insert an intermission or a pause sometimes to puff it up. That seems like overkill, to me, though.

LTC: Oh, yes. Oh my gosh. It was definitely conceived as a one act. You really have to get in there and decide what you are going to say quickly because the audience needs to recognize the characters and they need to hook into the situation right away.

PC: How is your particular take unique?

LTC: My approach might be a little different than ones people have seen. In this production, Patti is as involved in it as Wendy Whalen is. Many times, or at least in productions I have seen of it, the singer is more like a narrator on the side - or, maybe she comes in at one point and does a little action. In this production, my goal is to have Patti as present and as active as Wendy.

PC: Fully integrated.

LTC: Exactly. The singers are, too, actually.

PC: What period is this production set in? MAHAGONNY takes place in the future, and this is sort of a sister to that, no?

LTC: Well, of course it was written in the 30s so I am sure it was sort of conceived as a period piece. So, we sort of bowed to the period - but not literally. We set it in a place that says, "This can resonate in any period of time," - because it most certainly can.

PC: As with all the best of Brecht.

LTC: Well, what they were saying with this piece is part of our human DNA - it's part of our make-up.

PC: In what ways?

LTC: In this production, Anna I and Anna II start out as united sisters. As they go into the pressures of the world and are challenged to survive, the schism begins and the self-hate begins - because, in order to survive, they have to walk through this valley. So, what happens is - and Patti and I discuss this endlessly - as in multiple personality disorders: one part of a person is usually the dominant person and the other part can sometimes be looked down upon. You know, she can have contempt for her and she can be terribly angry at her - but, it's all one being. That's the way they wrote it.

PC: How complex. What a rich role to play for Ms. LuPone.

LTC: In the beginning, she says, "She‘s the one with the looks, / I'm realistic. / She‘s just a little mad, / My head is on straight. / But, we‘re really one divided being / Even though you see two of us / And both of us are Anna. / Together, we, but a single past, / A single future. / One heart / One saving account / And we only do what suits the other best. / Right, Anna? / Right, Anna."

PC: And Anna itself is a palindrome!

LTC: Oh, my Lord. (Laughs.) It is! (Pause.) That's the germ, though, in that verse, of everything that happens to them. One can't stand aside and be an observer, you know what I mean?

PC: Such is the case for much of Brecht. What do you think of the character Patti portrays?

LTC: Well, a lot of it comes down to the way the character is written. Is she singing to the audience or is she singing into the mirror? I think the effect is the same. You have the same expression when you are talking to yourself, thinking through things, as you do when you are speaking to the audience. So, what's so great about Patti is that she shares with the audience - because that's such a powerful thing, especially when she does it - but, at other times, she's also talking to herself.

PC: And she's coming off of COMPANY: IN CONCERT as Joanne where she comments on the action in that, as well.

LTC: I never made that connection before - how interesting.

PC: How did Ms. LuPone become involved in this production?

LTC: Well, I sat down with her and I said, "This is my concept. I know you are really, really, really busy, but I think your participation, organically, is so important to me." And, she said, "Yes, I want to be a part of it from the beginning." So, we've been in the studio improvising since last August. It's been a real shoulder-to-shoulder effort. Everything she's doing - her opinion and her instincts - have been crucial to me. She and Wendy have really found this incredible working relationship that will ultimately make this something really, really special. We are trying to work to the beats and really realize it in little scenarios that will be understandable and crystal-clear to the audience.

PC: How did you feel when you've seen it yourself, as an audience member?

LTC: Well, I saw one production once - I won't tell you which one (Laughs.) - where I just walked away - me and the whole audience - and felt really emotionally unattached.

PC: Why do you think that was?

LTC: I think it was because I didn't really understand what just happened - it wasn't clear to me. And, that was my first production.

PC: But, doesn't Brecht require emotional unattachment to a certain extent - isn't is elementary to his aesthetic?

LTC: Well, I think Lenya was a red hot mama and she brought a lot to it, though. And, Brecht was a woman-lover, too.

PC: She brought the heat and he brought the meat (of the drama).

LTC: In some of my research, I read a lot about all of that. Lenya wrote down everything, so she left a really rich history of those two men and her relationship with Weill.

PC: So, Weill and Brecht really wrote it in just seven days?

LTC: Yes - the libretto. But, the clues in the text are still very scant. I mean, we're in Los Angeles and they're extras in a movie - that's your clue! You need to take that clue and take the audience there so they can go with it, you know?

PC: Fill in the blanks. It's sort of like the scenes are the meat and the audience has to provide the bones in their own minds.

LTC: Yeah, I know what you mean. I wanted to make this be a version that could live in any time, so we wanted to give the scenic element as little time as possible so it could be about the story unfolding for you. I started the costume and set design so early. They said it was as early as Robbins (Laughs.).

PC: That's too funny.

LTC: But, really, it was just because there's no time. Even back in February we flew a few drops and marked through a few moments with some dancers onstage. And, I had time to go back and rethink them. I think it's important to give yourself time, no matter what - under any circumstances.

PC: One theory I've read that I question, so I'll ask you: Is the piece about pregnancy, in any way, do you think?

LTC: I've never heard that.

PC: What do you think it is about?

LTC: My take is that: because we divide parts of ourselves it works. When you deal with these situations in the world and you are poor - which is what these women are - different values emerge. I mean, do you cheat on your income tax? There are certain things you have to, I don't know, modulate yourself about, you know?

PC: At what point do you sell out - or sell your soul?

LTC: Yeah, exactly. I think it's really a cautionary tale. Look at what happens to people who start out with hope! (Laughs.)

PC: Pity them, right?

LTC Right! The world is a cruel, cruel place.

PC: What is your own personal Deadly Sin of the seven?

LTC: Since the sins are perpetuated on them, or because one sister pimps the other... I really need to think about it. When you read about the Seven Deadly Sins, Pride always comes to the top for religious people. Isn't that interesting?

PC: Which one afflicts you most?

LTC: It's too hard! I mean, in the piece, it's not her sinning so much as finding herself in a situation of sin. So, I guess I can take the easy way out and plead the Fifth. (Laughs.)

PC: What about for the audience of today?

LTC: I think Greed bothers me most about contemporary life - it's so destructive.

PC: Especially Broadway prices.

LTC: I know! What's crazy is that movie stars and sports stars get tons of money, but people get mad about ticket prices on Broadway and how much actors get paid - which is nothing in comparison. It's just about the arena - since a theater is a two thousand seat arena and not twenty thousand, it has to be more expensive.

PC: And there will be six performances of THE SEVEN DEADLY SINS - which is very rare for a ballet - yes?

LTC: Yes, six performances and there is even a matinee in there, too. I also kept the ensemble to sixteen so everyone gets a chance to step out, and we kept it all to one week. So, it's nice that the people are in it can do it like a show.

PC: Not just a one-off.

LTC: Yeah, I think it's fantastic. And, to get Patti, considering she is so busy, how could we not?

PC: Will you be doing it again?

LTC: It's scheduled for next season! So, that gives me a chance to change anything that doesn't quite work.

PC: The work is never done.

LTC: Balanchine went back time and time again with many of his productions. But, he didn't have to work as a freelancer, either! (Laughs.)

PC: CHESS to SWING! to ballet and beyond!

LTC: And none of it planned! (Laughs.)

PC: Did you see the Balanchine iteration of THE SEVEN DEADLY SINS?

LTC: It was never filmed - and, it was never done that much. It was only done that once. Then, Balanchine tried to bring it back in the 1970s. He tried to revive it. He wanted Bette Midler to do it and she was available. Balanchine was very excited about doing it, from what I've heard. Then, they went to the archives and there was nothing - nobody remembered it and it wasn't written down. For some reason it had not been notated. I heard, also, from Karin - she was supposed to play Anna II - that people had tried to remember bits and pieces, but it just wasn't happening. And, they got a couple sections re-choreographed, but the musicians walked out.

PC: Wow, what a loss.

LTC: Yeah, it really was. I think after a few days Balanchine just said, "It wasn't meant to be," and they just dropped it.

PC: Around the same time they did MAHOGANNY at the Met - where it was hated.

LTC: Yeah, I really think it is tough. LOST IN THE STARS at Encores! was beautiful. You know, they are pretty unrelenting about letting you change things - although they have given me permission for a couple of repeats, because, in the transitional sections, it's very difficult to sit in silence. So, while I was sitting there at Encores!, I was thinking, "Yeah, that's a hard sell for a non-converted audience."

PC: To say the least. And LOST IN THE STARS is mainstream compared to most of Weill's other work in many ways.

LTC: I mean, sure, they might like that gorgeous song or they might like the general story, but, again, had these men lived longer and kept up with the way musicals changed and found new ways to keep audiences engaged - transitions and returning motifs - they may have approached that and made it really work. The stuff like this, you just have to be committed to following it. People lose interest somehow.

PC: It's hard for audiences to put it in perspective.

LTC: Yeah, it's like you need to be educated to understand what you are seeing and people don't invest that kind of time - they just want to go and be interested or moved or something like that. That, for me, is challenging for me in this production, too.

PC: Or you can always go the shock route like with the Roundabout THREEPENNY with nudity and onstage drug use and everything.

LTC: I didn't see that production - but, wow! (Laughs.) I think your mind takes you farther when you don't actually see that stuff, though.

PC: You're probably right. Americans get Puritanical about nudity, though - don't they?

LTC: Well, with this piece, that's just not what it is about, anyway. And, to build up to that and really earn it?
These sections are just so short - you just want to keep people's heads in it, you know? And, the costumes are handled very beautifully.

PC: How do you wrap up your experiences in the 1980s, looking back? It was a veritable golden age compared to today.

LTC: Yeah, yeah, I agree. Look, all you can do is pass through your time - you can't really step back and see it. You know, I try to help a lot of younger people. They say, "Well, how did you do it?" And, I say, "I can't compare myself to you - the world is different." It's just different.

PC: Speaking of now: have you seen BLACK SWAN?

LTC: I haven't - and I hear that I must!

PC: You really do!

LTC: Yeah, I know, I know - everyone has been telling me that; even the ones who hated it! It's crazy, because I would come out of rehearsal and it would be right across the street and I'd say, "Oh, I should go see it." But, it's just very complex when you are a freelancer and I've also just done a reading of a new show. But, it's really funny, because even among the dancers in the City Ballet company there is such a schism.

PC: What do they think of the film?

LTC: Well, the schism is about: contempt, sort of, for the way dancers are depicted; then, also, them just loving the simple fact that, you know, dance got that much attention.

PC: Very intriguing.

LTC: Yes, it's very interesting. I've heard the dirt and people really do have very different reactions to it.

PC: It's part of the tradition of THE RED SHOES and ALL THAT JAZZ now, for better or worse.

LTC: Yeah, I think I would agree - it's bringing it back around. You know, people say now, "Oh, ballet? Maybe I'll see one of those."

PC: You knew Michael Powell - one of the directors of THE RED SHOES - did you not? Could you tell me how you two met?

LTC: Well, what happened was Marty Scorsese and Francis Coppola were talking one day about Michael Powell - this was long after he was blacklisted from Hollywood for a movie called PEEPING TOM - and they kind of just found out where he was and then one thing led to the next and they brought him to America and kind of set him up here a little bit. Then, he met my good friend Thelma [Schoomaker, Scorsese's Oscar-winning editor], who is way younger, met him and it was just one those things - and, you know, they fell in love and got married. Then, they moved to New York, because she edits here. I was lucky enough to be invited to dinner at their home several times. They had such an incredible relationship.

PC: What were those evenings like?

LTC: He always had such interesting people - one night, Jim Jarmusch; and Kim Hunter was there, before she died, and several other interesting people. They would just have these dinner parties that were so effortless. Everybody was interesting. Then, he got sick and that was very hard on Thelma - but, they had a good three or four really happy years and that's a lot more than a lot of people have.

PC: And Marty Scorsese did the commentary on the new Criterion RED SHOES Blu-ray, as well.

LTC: That's right! That's right. As a matter of fact, in Marty's offices in New York, one room is devoted to Michael's archives.

PC: What do you think of THE RED SHOES?

LTC: That was really just a landmark movie. Also, Michael did things before they had the equipment to do it. I mean, the way he ran film backwards... it's all really unbelievable.

PC: With BLACK NARCISSUS, as well - especially.

LTC: Yes! That's right, that's right. He was really special to me, and I am disappointed to tell you that before he got sick he asked me to work on an opera with him and I said, you know, "Oh my God - Yes!" But, then, nothing ever happened. That would have been an honor of honors.

PC: Define collaboration.

LTC: It's when it's just flowing - when you‘re just flowing. When you are just flowing and it's just happening and all the people in the room see the same target? That's the best. When I am flying and an idea is flowing with a group of people, that's when I think, "If we have gotten to this point, I don't care whose idea it is - I don't care if it's my idea or anyone's single idea." If we can make it work then we have found the solution to making something that can be more effective. I love it when that happens - but, it's rare. It is very rare. This has been a very special project in that regard.

PC: This was fabulous, Lynne. All my best to you. I really appreciate it.

LTC: Thank you so, so much, Pat. This was just super. Bye bye.