Article: OPERATION MINCEMEAT... plots its course to New York

[jacobsnchz14]

Posted: 5/8/24 at 12:46pm

Is Operation Mincemeat ‘too British’ for Broadway? The show plots its course to New York (whatsonstage.com)

Operation Mincemeat has its eyes on a cross-Atlantic journey – but has made a refreshingly frank appeal in the process.

The show, which won the WhatsOnStage Award for Best New Musical and two Olivier Awards (including Best New Musical), sent out an email to its mailing list today suggesting that “significant investors and producers” on the other side of the Pond are concerned that that the show is “too British”.

Charting a slightly ludicrous MI5 plot to use a deceased body in order to trick the Nazis into faked invasion plans, the show continues to wow audiences at the Fortune Theatre, where it has extended eight times so far (and will likely do so again).

Of course, Broadway is invariably more expensive than the West End. Admitting the show cost £2 million in London versus $13.5 million in New York, producers go on to explain: “But here is the truth… The Broadway industry is split. Some people, including significant investors and producers say the show is ‘too British’, and some that Broadway has become too expensive. Our supporters, including many American press and public don’t agree – and think the show will go gang-busters.”

The show has also explained how its American following has grown: “On our side – we’re looking at the stats: a year ago, two per cent of our London audience was American… Today we’re up to 11 per cent. We’ve been extended eight times, we’re up to 69 five-star reviews – more than any show in West End history – and recently we picked up two Olivier Awards… Listen. We really want to bring the show to Broadway. But we need the American ticket-buying public to tell us – is the show ‘too British’ or can we join the ranks of Six, Billy Elliot, Les Mis, Me and My Girl and Oliver!… to name but a few that have successfully crossed the pond?”

For any Americans reading this now – feel free to have your say.

[RippedMan]

Posted: 5/8/24 at 12:48pm

From $2m pounds to almost $14m is kind of wild to me. Especially for this show which is very small. 

[bigbelterbaby]

Posted: 5/8/24 at 12:57pm

Unfortunately I think the show is too British to appeal to a wide audience. There’s a lot of shows on the West End that have done well there but are so based on British culture and sensibilities that don’t translate. Just look at the tempid reception to Patriots and Cabaret and will likely happen to Sunset Boulevard. 

[Wick3]

Posted: 5/8/24 at 12:59pm

I agree. $14m is a lot of money and this is not including the weekly nugget/running costs. 

I think a good number of people who have Netflix here in USA is familiar with the story from watching the movie starring Colin Firth and Matthew MacFadyen on Netflix back in 2021.

As far as accents go, the play Ferryman had strong accents and still recouped on Broadway.

Hopefully it will be able to find enough investors to bring it to Broadway. 

[suzycat]

Posted: 5/8/24 at 1:04pm

I don’t know, comparing it to those other recent British transfers isn’t quite fair. It’s essentially a wildly witty caper comedy with heart. The closest thing I’ve seen in NY is Gentleman’s Guide, but Mincemeat has more depth. I don’t think it’s too British at all. And goodness knows we could use some more funny shows on the boards.  

[yyys]

Posted: 5/8/24 at 1:08pm

Bring it off Broadway!

 

[Jordan Catalano]

Posted: 5/8/24 at 1:15pm

Jesus. $14 million vs £2 million. 
 

I still don’t fully understand the differences in mounting a show that make that difference.

[Dylan Smith4]

Posted: 5/8/24 at 1:15pm

I've said it before and will say it again: who cares if it's "too British?" This was by far the most hilarious show I have seen on any stage, West End or Broadway! I understood the story, and other Americans who were there the night I went also agreed. British shows have come here before and have had great success, like Billy Elliott or SIX. They just need to market it well so that it can reach out to American audiences. Do I think they will implement the one-price ticketing for Broadway? Probably not, but who knows?

[chrishuyen]

Posted: 5/8/24 at 1:24pm

I've never really understood the assertion that the show is too British.  What wouldn't you know if you're American that would be crucial to understanding the show?  We see so many WWII movies (a lot based around the British side of events) and they do just fine at the box office (I'm aware that movies and Broadway are different beasts but still) and there's not any cultural knowledge I can think of that you'd need to know to follow the story (maybe just knowing what MI5 is, but I feel like James Bond has taken care of that for a lot of people, and they can just throw in a line likening it to the FBI).  I hadn't seen the movie or heard anything else about this event before, and I was able to enjoy the show just fine.  I thought Ferryman was far harder to follow since I didn't have a good grasp of the Troubles, and Standing by the Sky's Edge referenced a lot of British/Sheffield history that I didn't recognize so it made me feel like I was playing catch up the whole time.

The only thing that could possibly be "too British" is in the construction of the show, with the tongue in cheek tone and the constant shifting of actors and roles, but I think that' something we're seeing a lot more recently off Broadway as well.  I think it would maybe give me pause for it being on Broadway (as opposed to a smaller house), but I don't think the subject matter would be the issue.

[SonofRobbieJ]

Posted: 5/8/24 at 1:27pm

When I saw this last fall, I went in with an eye to see if this could potentially play here. I was entirely swept up in the show and there really isn't so 'British' about it as to be inaccessible. Plus...it has two things going for it that work for American audiences: World War II and a madcap, multi-character style (Think 'The Complete Works of William Shakespeare (Abridged)').

I've done a bunch of shows like this in various places around the country (The Big Bang, Every Xmas Story Ever Told) and they are always crowd-pleasers. I kept thinking of those shows while watching Operation Mincemeat. It's fast-paced, clear in its storytelling and throws in some beautifully heartfelt moments at key points. I never expected to well up with tears during this show, but I did on numerous occasions. Plus you even have a famous name like Ian Fleming. 

The sticker shock, however, between London and NY really has become insane. 

[ErmengardeStopSniveling]

Posted: 5/8/24 at 1:30pm

"Too British" usually feels like a copout and a way to cover up other concerns for why it might not succeed in America.

I think audiences are more willing to embrace a culture on stage that is not their own, more than they were even 10 years ago...and the culture of this show is not THAT different from white American culture.

$14M is high but still lower than most other new Broadway musicals. Advertising, construction, rehearsal & tech costs, housing for Brit creative team members, legal & management fees (it's not free to have 50 co-producers above the title), a cash reserve of 1-2 million. You have to remember author and creative team advances will also be higher in America because the budget is higher, everyone else is getting paid more, and they are riding on a successful London run. Some of those expenses may seem nominal but they do all add up.

On the plus side, the running cost shouldn't be crazy. 9 people in the cast in London incl understudies/swings. And on Broadway it would surely play a larger house than London (its London theatre has 432 seats).

Who is producing it stateside, ATG?

[MasterThespian 2]

Posted: 5/8/24 at 1:31pm

On a slightly related topic, does anyone know how long the original cast plans to stick with the show on the West End?

[yyys]

Posted: 5/8/24 at 1:37pm

New cast apparently starts May 13. Next week!

 

MasterThespian 2 said: "On a slightly related topic, does anyone know how long the original cast plans to stick with the show on the West End?"

 

[two ladies tickets]

Posted: 5/8/24 at 1:40pm

The original cast will play their final performance on Saturday. Most people have been assuming that they would be announcing the new West End cast along with the fact that the original cast will be transferring to Broadway, but it's already Wednesday and that announcement has not come.
as a British expat who's lived in New York for over 20 years I can't really gauge whether or not this show is too British for American audiences, but if this does transfer to Broadway, it's going to need to go into one of the smaller houses. The Booth is not available, after The Roommate, David Stone is planning to transfer Next To Normal there. We can assume that Stereophonic will be at The Golden through the end of the year so that only leaves The Music Box, so are they waiting to announce the transfer until after Suffs posts a closing notice? 

[binau]

Posted: 5/8/24 at 1:45pm

14 MILLION for a tiny show with no set and 5 people? WTF??? You know the 2011 revival of Follies with that massive and starry cast, orchestra and set was only about 7.5 million to mount. And about $600,000 USD to run. It was considered economical at the time for the size but still. 

In my head a show like operation mincemeat should cost today about $5 million to mount and 500,000 a week to run. I guess not. 
 

Also, every ticket for mincemeat costs about $112 USD on the west end. There are no premium tickets. I cringe at the inevitable $250-300 tickets in New York. 
 

Updated On: 5/8/24 at 01:45 PM

[chrishuyen]

Posted: 5/8/24 at 1:55pm

They price by day on the West End, so Monday tickets are the cheapest (about $50 USD for all seats) and they go up from there as the week goes on.  It would be SUPER interesting if they managed to make that work for Broadway, but I doubt it.  Though if you "normalize" each ticket band across the full week, you get tickets from $50-$112 and if you add premium seats on top of that, then that's probably around the normal ticket pricing for a Broadway show.

[RippedMan]

Posted: 5/8/24 at 2:25pm

I saw "Standing at the Sky's Edge" on the West End and everyone said that is too British to come here, but I was swept up in the story and didn't think about it one bit. 

Same with Billy Elliot. 

I think the only downfall is that most of the West End transfers have been "big" musicals - Matilda, Billy Elliot, etc. So would audiences really embrace paying $200 for no sets and a bunch of no name actors? 

[ErmengardeStopSniveling]

Posted: 5/8/24 at 2:33pm

A few things worth noting:

• The figures in that WhatsOnStage article are not verified. It may be that the show cost more than $2 mil pounds in London and/or will cost less than $14 mil in New York. Every capitalization has a minimum and a maximum, and sometimes they don't need to raise the max. Exchange rate alone adds minimum 25% to the London capitalization, plus major differences in union/labor/ad costs.
• There's no such thing as "no set." A cursory glance at production photos tells us there's a set, and props, and costumes.
• There's no one-size-fits-all for a "small-to-midsized" musical. STRANGE LOOP, ILLINOISE, and GUTENBERG all cost less than $10 mil. COME FROM AWAY, SWEENEY, and MERRILY cost $12 mil. SHUCKED cost $16 mil. SUFFS cost $19 mil. MJ, NYNY, and WATER FOR ELEPHANTS cost more than $20 mil.
• $7.5 million in 2011 dollars would be in the $11-15 million range today. Even non-musical plays that used to cost 4 million now cost $7-8 million. Post-Covid, everything is more expensive.

[two ladies tickets]

Posted: 5/8/24 at 2:40pm

ErmengardeStopSniveling said: "A few things worth noting:

• The figures in that WhatsOnStage article are not verified. It may be that the show cost more than $2 mil pounds in London and/or will cost less than $14 mil in New York. Every capitalization has a minimum and a maximum, and sometimes they don't need to raise the max. Exchange rate alone adds minimum 25% to the London capitalization, plus major differences in union/labor/ad costs.
• There's no such thing as "no set." A cursory glance at production photos tells us there's a set, and props, and costumes.
• There's no one-size-fits-all for a "small-to-midsized" musical. STRANGE LOOP, ILLINOISE, and GUTENBERG all cost less than $10 mil. COME FROM AWAY, SWEENEY, and MERRILYcost $12 mil. SHUCKED cost $16 mil. SUFFS cost $19 mil. MJ, NYNY, and WATER FOR ELEPHANTS cost more than $20 mil.
• $7.5 millionin 2011 dollars would be in the $11-15million range today. Even non-musical plays that used to cost 4 million now cost $7-8 million. Post-Covid, everything is more expensive.

"

Yes, to all of that. And I would also like to add: there's actually quite a bit of scenery, and quite a bit of automation in the second act. So for everyone saying that there's "no set" I'm not quite sure you saw the same show that we did. 
 

[RippedMan]

Posted: 5/8/24 at 2:42pm

But the fact that this show is being capitalized as more than the recent Sweeney would be wild. 

[Dolly80]

Posted: 5/8/24 at 2:58pm

The bigger problem is that it’s a pile of unfunny crap. The fact that this would cost $14 million in NYC should send alarm bells ringing.

[ErmengardeStopSniveling]

Posted: 5/8/24 at 3:28pm

RippedMan said: "But the fact that this show is being capitalized as more than the recent Sweeney would be wild."

Not really.

Groban as star means SWEENEY could have a much lower pre-previews advertising budget, because a number of tickets were sold via press release. That doesn't mean 0 advertising, but much of the legwork was done.

They probably had a very small cash reserve, due to a lead producer who's richer than god (Hamilton & Rent's Jeffrey Seller), a star, a limited run, and a known title.

Seller might have cut deals with some of his Hamilton people who make bucketloads of money on that show, or promised a better backend in exchange for lower upfront fees.

A revival with no significant text changes means no developmental expenses. Maybe they did a reading or a movement lab. I don't know what, if any, for Mincemeat development would be budgeted here.

It was a fairly contained set design.

And, once again, the Mincemeat figures have not been corroborated. The London Mincemeat producers are probably not the ones leading the charge and crunching the numbers for NYC.

Updated On: 5/8/24 at 03:28 PM

[binau]

Posted: 5/8/24 at 3:58pm

I was exaggerating when I said it had no set, but we all know what we mean come on it’s an off broadway show not a mega musical. I almost don’t believe the proposed cost. I think they need to open off Broadway first to build some hype first. I’m not saying it’s impossible (cf. sky’s edge, which I do think is too British in subject, form and style).

Mincemeat is well crafted and well performed in a way that New York audiences would recognise in terms of style. It’s a breath of original fresh air and has a great book and score, which happens to be British themed. Just feels a bit niche and risky to open. I wouldn’t personally invest to open cold on Broadway. I think the current people who believe in the show underestimate how hard it is to set that word of mouth on fire in New York. It’s easier in London where there is constantly a dearth of good new musicals. You know Back to the Future won the Olivier award for best musical too recently? This would never happen in New York.  

Dont forget it’s also in a tiny west end theatre with less than 500 seats. And while it’s selling extremely well you can still find some limited availability - and this is after the Olivier win (recognise it’s been running a while). 


 

 
 

 

[TaffyDavenport]

Posted: 5/8/24 at 4:05pm

two ladies tickets said:

"We can assume that Stereophonic will be at The Golden through the end of the year"

Can we assume that?

 

[ErmengardeStopSniveling]

Posted: 5/8/24 at 4:10pm

TaffyDavenport said: "two ladies tickets said:

"We can assume that Stereophonic will be at The Golden through the end of the year"

Can we assume that?"
 

Not going by last week's grosses! It's not doing badly, and its daily wraps have probably gone up post-Tony noms, but it's not at long-term-extension numbers yet.

Of all the plays, this does feel like one that could find a broader audience and extend beyond 20 weeks (because it's kind of like a musical). But we have to wait and see.