Interview: ‘I've Never Been Into Football!’: Actor Ryan Whittle on Returning to DEAR ENGLAND

After a run on the West End last year, the hit Dear England has returned to The National Theatre. The show, written by James Graham and directed by Rupert Goold, follows Gareth Southgate’s time as the manager of England’s men’s national football team. As the show was originally staged in 2023, it has been revised to reflect recent events including the 2024 Euros, new players and the end of Southgate’s tenure. 

Recently, we had the chance to talk with Ryan Whittle, who is playing the role of Harry Kane after playing Eric Dier in the last two runs of the show. We discussed his journey to the stage, what it’s like returning to the world of football for the third time and how his university degree relates to the show.

So how did you first get started in the world of theatre?

It was pretty unexpected, really! I didn't grow up going to the theatre, and I don't have a family that’s from a performing background. I don't think they'd have any interest in being on stage themselves, but they've always been extremely supportive. The way that I got into it was through film and TV, becoming obsessed with going to the cinema and seeing characters brought to life. Acting is like extended playtime, so that was really the draw! And then I had some really wonderful drama teachers that championed me and made it seem like it was a viable career. And so far, they’re right!

So you originally wanted to go into film?

Stage was always the way in because it was the first thing that I had any access to through school plays - it's most people's first taste of performing. But in terms of my interest in acting, it’s probably foremost through watching film.

And what made you want to be a part of Dear England?

Well, I've loved James Graham for a very long time. I used extracts from his play, The Man, to audition for drama school, so weirdly, this job felt like a full-circle moment. So when the opportunity arose to do a James Graham play directed by Rupert Goold at The National Theatre, it was like the Holy Trinity - I want to be part of this no matter what. The fact that it was based around football didn't have any bearing on that whatsoever. 

Really?

I've never been into football - I've tried several times to force an interest, and it's not really happened! [Laughs] Anyone who knows me was pretty surprised when they found out I was doing this.

Did you watch football games to get into that mentality of the sports world?

I say I don't have prior knowledge of it, but I did watch all the major tournaments - usually because someone else was watching them and I was dragged along! But I vividly remember in 2018 when we won on penalties, that shift where suddenly everyone was going, “Ooh, we might have a chance now!” The rhetoric that I was surrounded by, and which prevailed in the country, was this idea of, “We always get knocked out.”

There was this pessimism, like, “Let's not get our hopes up, because we never make it further than this.” And then suddenly it was like, “Oh, we've really got a shot here!” And since doing the show, around the last Euros, I was heavily invested because I felt like I knew everyone, even though I've never met them! [Laughs] It's really caught up in that world and the drama of it. I loved it. So I've definitely been converted!

And for those unfamiliar with Dear England, can you tell us a little bit about it and the role you play?

Yeah! The show follows Gareth Southgate and his time as the manager of the England men's team, and how he and Dr Pippa Grange, a performance psychologist, rethink and reshape the internal culture of the England football team, and, by extension, the external view of the team.

They look at relieving both the team and the country of those huge expectations of performing really well despite not having the best track record since 1966 [The only time England has won the World Cup]. And Harry Kane has such a beautiful journey in this. When we first see him, he's quite inarticulate. He’s quietly confident about his ability as a footballer, but he still needs time to grow into this leadership position after Gareth appoints him Captain. He and the rest of the team have to battle with this idea of letting go of external pressures and trying to focus on the task of just playing football really well.

What has it like to be returning to the show for the third time, this time in a new role as Harry Kane?

It's definitely surreal - I didn't think I'd be doing it for a third time! There was a point when I joked with the previous company that I would eventually age up and play all of the roles. [Laughs] But yeah, I played Eric Dier last time, who's another one of the players, and I felt like the chapter was closed on that from an acting point of view - I felt like I'd seen that character to fruition. But I had such an amazing time on those first two productions. It was just such an incredible company to work with. There was always a fondness for the show, so when the opportunity arose to come back as Harry Kane, it was like, “This is a no-brainer!”

How were the rehearsals for the show?

Rehearsals have been brilliant! It's been an absolute joy. It’s such an incredible play to be working on, but also just such a phenomenal company - we all have got on so well and become fast friends. Getting to work with those people every day and play around . . . It's an incredible feeling. And also, to go back to a show that I know so well, to reopen it and rediscover some things, that's pretty extraordinary.

Is it strange watching someone else in the old role you used to play? 

It’s not as strange as I thought it would be! It just fits. We've come into it saying, “This is a new show.” It is a new version. There's been some changes. And having that reset and building it back from the ground up was really helpful in shedding any hangover from the previous two versions.

And so these characters are based on real-life people. How do you balance making the character of Harry Kane your own while still making him recognisable to audiences?

Yeah, it's a difficult balance. I've always been fascinated by this, by playing real people. My dissertation in uni was actually on the subject of biographical portrayals! There is a fine balance between treating the person - who may come and see the show - with the respect that they deserve whilst simultaneously serving a story which is based in reality but is, at the end of the day, a piece of fiction. We can only surmise what happened behind closed doors. With any character, biographical or fictional, you have to approach it with a sense of truth and honesty. As long as every action is grounded in genuine human behaviour, then you'll be alright. It's just making sure that it never bleeds into caricature.

Do you think you'd want Harry Kane to come see the show?

I would! It's a really beautiful story that he's involved in. And I think once he'd get over that initial exposing thing of seeing someone play you in a production, he'd see that it is a really wonderful celebration of him and the team.

What do you hope audiences take away from Dear England?

There's so many great . . . I hesitate to say “lessons” because it's not like a preachy show at all, but there's so much in the work of Gareth Southgate and Pippa Grange that comes up in the show which has really resonated with me. I think the most prevailing is this idea of stories - how every day we tell ourselves a story about ourselves or about something, and at the same time, we have the power to rewrite that story and re-author it.

And finally, how would you describe Dear England in one word?

One word is very hard! It's so multifaceted and so rich that any singular word doesn't quite do it justice. But I'm going to say “stirring.”

Read our review of Dear England at The National Theatre here.

Dear England runs until 24 May at The National Theatre, ahead of a four-week run at the Lowry in Salford

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