Interview: 'It's Been a Source of Joy': Hadley Fraser and Ramin Karimloo on LES MIS, Friendship and DIRTY ROTTEN SCOUNDRELS

After ten years, Dirty Rotten Scoundrels is returning to the West End, this time as a concert production. The musical, which follows two con men trying to swindle money out of an heiress, will star Ramin Karimloo and Hadley Fraser.

Recently, Broadwayworld sat down to chat with Karimloo and Fraser about bringing the concert to life. We discussed how they got into the world of theatre, the importance of comedy and how one of their Dirty Rotten Scoundrel castmates nearly broke them during Les Misérables!

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How did you each first get involved in the world of theatre?

Ramin: For me, it was a trip to see Phantom. I thought, “That's amazing! I think I'd like to do that.” It was about wanting to make people feel like how I was just made to be felt.

Hadley: For me, it was being involved in theatre at school... I remember my brother doing a production of West Side Story and I sat there going, “This is incredible! I want to do this.” So I did some some bits at school, and then some more bits at university and went, “I really, really like this!” So went and did a post-grad and that was that, really! There wasn't a formulaic moment of going to see a show. In fact, I saw Les Mis when I was eighteen and I thought it was rubbish! [Laughs] I was like, “This is so awful!” And then four years later, was doing it in town with you [Ramin] going, “Oh, this is actually really good!”

Ramin: When you auditioned for it then, were you into it more?

Hadley: Didn't know it at all!

Really?

Hadley: It was in the cultural consciousness though, wasn't it? I speak to friends of my generation, and a lot of them, even if they're not into theatre, their parents would have taken them to see Les Mis or they had a copy of the cassette in the car. That's how old I am! But my family, they weren't in some musicals or theatre at all.

Ramin: So you saw it at eighteen, you didn't like it, and then we're what, 22 at that point? Were you like, “Oh, I want to be in Les Mis,” or as an actor, you were like, “I gotta be working. Gotta build a credit!”

Hadley: I was still at college, and they said, “Come and audition for this,” and I was like, “Yeah! I'm leaving college in four weeks, I better start finding work!”

Ramin: I have seen Les Mis several times now. And there are some times where I don't enjoy it, and there's some times I'm re-inspired. It takes not just casting great people. It's the right people at the right time - they just pick up an energy that makes sense for that moment. And the way they work together, it does work as a team! You're as good as the next person beside you. You all do need each other. One person can't make that show.

What has it been like to have this musical partnership grow over these years? 

Hadley: It's been a source of joy, let's put it that way! It's funny, isn't it, because at times we've come together to do things and in other times, life has led us elsewhere, work has led us elsewhere. I feel like I'm lucky enough to have someone in life and in my professional life who I can go two years without seeing, come back and strike up like it was two hours ago, and that feels a bit like it is on stage as well. We've not done a full production for a while, but it's also comfort and familiarity and joy!

Ramin: Do you know what's great, though? As you said, we haven't done a full production in a while, but I see growth with us! We have stuff we do with bands together, then From the Rehearsal Room, then concerts, then the 25th anniversaries . . . Every time we work together, I do see a growth of more of a creative comfort. I used be so nervous around him as well, because I look up to him creatively! But now there's a seamless dance - we both know what each brings, and there's a complement, rather than trying to outdo each other. 

Hadley: I don't think it's ever been about one-upmanship, has it? It's always just been, “Let's have fun and create some fun things.” 

Ramin: And you can't have that with everyone. I work great with other people too, I hope, but it's not what this is. But this happened organically and over time.

And so what made you want to be a part of Dirty Rotten Scoundrels? 

Hadley: Well, it came about slightly by accident, and that's not to downplay anybody's input into it. There's been an awful lot of work behind the scenes to get it on. But we had been doing From the Rehearsal Room and we were looking for some duets, which are sometimes quite hard to come by, male-male duets - or at least ones that people don't do all that often - and had found one in Dirty Rotten Scoundrels, which is called “Dirty Rotten Number,” right at the end of the show. Maybe you've thought about it more than I had, but it was only when we started doing that I went, “Actually, this makes a great deal of sense!”

Ramin: And it [From the Rehearsal Room] was at the Savoy, where our buddy, Adam Hoskins, who's our MD for various projects, also worked with Lambert Jackson all the time. I actually met him through Lambert Jackson with Dr Zhivago. He was watching the Savoy show and that night, with our wonderful banter, we brought up, “Wouldn't this be fun to do as a show?” Lo and behold Adam phoned Phoebe. Next thing you know, it's happening! No turning back! 

Hadley: Sometimes that happens, doesn't it? You open Pandora's Box and suddenly, then you've got to learn a lot of lines! It’s our fault! But it makes a great deal of sense. Sometimes, you get cast in things and you're like, “That feels a bit of a stretch.” This one feels like it's right in our collective wheelhouse at the moment, just in terms of who we are. It makes so much sense to be doing it. And it's not been in London for ten years, so it's about time that people have the opportunity to see it again. And it's such a good score! It's incredible. The script is whip-smart, it's funny. 

So for those unfamiliar with the show, can you tell us a little bit about it and the roles that you play? 

Hadley: We don't want to give too much away, actually, because there are some twists and turns in the tale! But it's about two conmen, as you might expect, one of whom is in the south of France, and that's his “patch.” That's my character, Lawrence Jameson. And then your character comes into town!

Ramin: Yep! Freddie Benson, rough around the edges . . . 

Hadley: Initially a bit of a rival? 

Ramin: Unbeknownst to him! Freddie caught wind that Beaumont-sur-Mer is the place where all the rich ladies are. “Rich dames,” as he calls them, who are ready to feel good about themselves by being charitable and whatnot.

Hadley: But then they strike up a partnership, and they make a bet that they have to extract a certain amount of money from a particular mark. 

You've both been in both concert productions and full productions. What is it like preparing for a concert versus a full-on production of a show?

Ramin: I'm not gonna lie, these [concert productions] are tough because we want to treat it, like you would anything, like a full production. There's an audience there - I want them to feel like the show has been running for a while. Because I've sat on this side of the producing line a bit with concerts, my respect and admiration for the sound, the lights, how quick they have to turn this around . . . I understand where all this started from out of the pandemic. This was a way to get theatre going again, and stuff like this has stuck because it is a lot of fun in the end! But I always get a gut-wrenching feeling when it finishes, like, “Can we do another week, or a month?” 

Hadley: It's funny, isn't it, because in my experience, doing full-scale productions, long-running productions, these days, you are increasingly being asked to come to rehearsals off book. Obviously, we need to with something like this, because we have a shortened rehearsal time. So really, the preparation for it isn't too different.

In terms of turning up on day one, you are as prepared as you possibly can be. The slight difference is actually in the manifestation of the production itself, in terms of having a slightly shorter rehearsal and then obviously a much shorter run. If you had a run of six weeks, twelve weeks, half a year, a year, or whatever, you have more time to settle into something. Whereas with this one, you go, “Right, we have two performances of this thing. We want people to sit there and feel like they're seeing something that's fully formed.” And actually, inside of you, there's that thing of going “Okay, it's this thing next, isn't it?” It's an exercise in confidence, which is ironic for this show, a confidence trick. How much confidence can I project and how much preparation have I done in order to be able to project that? 

Ramin: And stuff like this too, especially this one specifically, there is that hope, me, personally, that I'd love to see this have a life in London with Hadley. And you hope that there's support there to go, “Yeah, we need something like this now”. It's fun, it's not too deep, it's just ultimately joyous. It's just goddamn fun!

This is the first time it's been in the West End in a decade. What is it like knowing that you're going to be bringing it back for this new generation of theatre fans? 

Hadley: It's great to be doing a show of David's [Yazbek] because I don't feel like he’s that well-known over here.

Ramin: Yeah, and it's nice to do something with you that has a book now, and it's not just a concert! I'm excited to do the book scenes with Hadley, because that's something I don't think we've ever had. 

Hadley: We haven't done a book scene musical before, yeah! We've done all the sung-through stuff. That's gonna be exciting, isn't it? It's gonna be really good fun. Hard to keep a straight face also, including the great cast that we have around us as well, who are all fantastic. There's gonna be a lot of lot of holding onto your hats! 

How have rehearsals been going?

Ramin: They've been going good! But as Hadley mentioned earlier, a lot of this is the work you do on your own first, so we're doing all our homework now! We’ve had music calls and then looking forward to all being in the room together.

What do you hope audiences take away from Dirty Rotten Scoundrels?

Hadley: I just hope they have a damn good time!

Ramin: Belly ache of laughter! I want their stomach to hurt.

Hadley: I don't think it's bigger than that, is it? And that's a really important thing.

Ramin: We need some light-hearted stuff. Now’s a good time to have some laughs. 

Hadley: There’s space for everything in the world, isn’t there? But it feels like sometimes there's really the need for something that's just flat-out funny, and that's what this is.

Do either of you have a favourite line or song from the show?

Hadley: My favourite song at the moment is one of your and Carly's songs, “Nothing Is Too Wonderful To Be True,” which I think is such a beautiful ballad. It's a modern jazz standard, I suppose. It's so beautifully written and put together and constructed. And in the middle of this show where there's lots of fun things and slapstick and all that kind of stuff happening, there's this really beautiful, sincere duet. At the moment, that's the one that I'm gravitating towards. 

Ramin: Mine is “Love Sneaks In.” 

Hadley: Yeah, it's gorgeous, isn't it? 

Ramin: Oh, my God. I've heard the album and I'm a big fan of John Lithgow, but then because of your vocal ability, I was like, “Holy shit, this is stunning!”

Hadley: I think he's such a good composer, I really do. And there's lots of funny ones as well, like “Ruffhousin' Mit Shüffhausen,” where I have to tickle your feet!

How would you describe Dirty Rotten Scoundrels in one word?

Hadley: It's a combination of funny, hilarious, side-splitting . . . Take your pick out of those!

Ramin: I'm getting outrageous!

Hadley: Great! Outrageously side-splitting! 

Watch Ramin Karimloo & Hadley Fraser Sing "Dirty Rotten Number" from the show here.

Dirty Rotten Scoundrels runs on 24 November at the London Palladium.

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