Interview: Sandra Dickinson Talks THE UNBUILT CITY

Sandra Dickinson has had a long and diverse career, spanning stage and screen. An American who has lived in the UK for over four decades, she was recently seen in Steven Spielberg's Ready Player One and as Lucille Ball in I Loved Lucy at the Arts Theatre.

She is currently starring opposite Jonathan Chambers in the European premiere of The Unbuilt City at the King's Head Theatre.

How did you first become interested in theatre?

I think when I was eight. I was asked to play Sleeping Beauty in a class play and I wore my mother's seersucker slip as my princess dress. I came down in a terrible rash all over my body and they couldn't figure out what it was. They think it may have been stage fright. But I've always wanted to be an actress ever since I can remember.

Did you study to be an actress?

I studied theatre at university in the United States, both at the University of Wisconsin in Madison and at Boston University. Then I married an Englishman and came over here - ostensibly for a year, and I've now been here nearly 50. I went to the Central School of Speech and Drama for three years.

What was your first job in the industry?

I started out in commercials. I couldn't get a job as an actress when I got here because I couldn't get an Equity card, and you couldn't get an Equity card without a job - it was one of those catch-22s. I got a job in a commercial Production Company as a telephonist/typist. It was an American company over here called Lee Lacy Associates and I would answer the telephone and type call sheets.

People began to call up just to hear my voice because it used to be very, very high. My first husband said that only dogs could hear it. As a result of that, I met a lovely woman working there who was a producer of commercials and she said, "If you ever want to have a go at acting, give me a call." She became my agent for several years and got me my first commercial.

It was by Alan Parker for Birds Eye Beef Burgers. That took off; it ran for three years and got a gold award. Because I got well known in commercials, I didn't have to go through the spear-carrying phase of theatre. I was offered leads immediately, so I was very lucky. But I did put myself in the way of work. I thought if I can't get a job, I'll put myself somewhere where it might lead to something, and it certainly did.

You're American but have spent much of your career here in the UK. Do you prefer the UK to America or has it been circumstantial?

I haven't been part of the American scene very much, although I did work in Hollywood for a short time around 1989. But I would love to work in America again. I was very lucky because I did the I Loved Lucy play by Lee Tannen. Last summer, we were at the Arts Theatre and before that we were at Jermyn Street. We got to do a one-night-only Off-Broadway at the Lucille Lortel Theatre to raise money for another theatre. To stand on a stage in New York was the most thrilling thing.

I had been there once before. I did Tennessee Williams' very first play with the National Theatre Company. I was on Broadway itself for five months when my daughter was 13, so that's 20 years ago. I've had a taster and I would love to work there more, but my family kind of sprang up like a bed of roses here.

I have a very beautiful daughter [Georgia Moffett], who is an actress and producer and a writer - she's married to David Tennant and they have four gorgeous children. I'm a grandmother four times over, so I love being near them. David is doing more work in America now, which is lovely. I'm married for my third and final time to this wonderful man, and obviously where he is, I'll be. But we're all here in England at the moment. My daughter is also a dual national, so opportunities and possibilities are many.

You've acted across film, television, and theatre. What is your favourite part of each medium?

I've also done a lot of voiceover work in cartoons, which I love, because then you just concentrate on the voice. You don't have to worry about hair or make-up or clothing. It's just you and the mic and the director, which is delightful.

I've done a series called Gumball for a number of years and I've played about eight different characters. It's been so fun! I just finished Thunderbirds Are Go playing Grandma Tracie.

Last year, I did a part in a Daniel Alfredson movie, Intrigo, and it was pure delight working with him. He and his wife wrote the piece and I got to meet his wife as well. We filmed in Slovenia. It was very funny because I said to one of the Slovenian crew, "Oh Melania [Trump] comes from here, doesn't she?" And they said, "Yes, yes, but she's from the other side of the big hills; she's a peasant." I thought they might be proud of her making good, but I guess there's so much loathing for this person all over the world.

Anyways, they put me in this hotel and I opened my curtains and it was like a film set. The foothills of the Alps covered in snow with a river running by... I just thought I'd landed in heaven. I was in in this beautiful country with this extraordinary director and writer and his wife doing this film with actors from all over Europe.

With theatre, the schedule is gruelling. Although it's fun, you're on every night and you can't make a mistake. With film, they do another take. It's a very cushy way to live and it was lovely to get to see another country. I actually love it all. I love working. I'm a bit of a workaholic really.

You played Lucille Ball in I Loved Lucy. What was it like to take on such an iconic figure?

It was a real honour. I did the reading of it with one actor. We just rehearsed for a couple of days and did a reading upstairs in a room at the Arts Theatre with the first director. Then Anthony Biggs picked it up and took it to Jermyn Street and I did it with another actor, Matthew Bunn. We did a second run at Jermyn Street and I did it with a third actor, Stefan Menaul, an American.

All of them were terrific, but it was stressful having to get a whole new relationship going. Doing a two-hander, it's essential to get that connection. It was a bit like my private life. Here we go, getting married again!

The final one we did at the Arts Theatre with Matthew Scott. He's someone that Lee had always wanted to play him. Because of course, the co-star in I Loved Lucy is [writer] Lee Tannen. He was sort of searching for the ideal self, which he found in Matthew Scott, who's done a lot of work in Broadway musicals. Because he's done musicals, they gave him a song, which was a really moving moment. Apparently Lee used to sing for Lucy.

It was extraordinary to play her. The challenge with that part was that her voice was very deep. She smoked a great deal and probably had a few scotches and used to drink slushies and had this very husky voice. I had to do that every night. I did have to have one night off.

A very dear friend of mine, Bob Tranter, is one of the top ENTs in the UK, and he and his wife came to the show one night. He said there were all these particles in the air. They get this machine going to diffuse the lighting, which they say is water-based smoke, but it was affecting both myself and Matthew. It did my voice in. They've done a lot of stuff on Broadway, I believe, against using these machines, because they're really damaging to actors.

It was a woman near the end of her life, and she and Lee were dear friends. It was lovely to play someone who had been this huge international star, but to play her in private when her stardom was on the wane and sadly, her marriage to Desi was over. She was with Gary Morton and it was a really poignant time. That was full of humour and pathos and just delightful. We had Lee pretty much throughout, so we got all the inside knowledge from him. They're talking about doing it America again.

What are some of the highlights of your career personally?

Literally I have loved everything I've done. I've had very few unfortunate moments. Working with Roy Kinnear was one of the highlights. We did a comedy show together called The Clairvoyant. That was a typical American dumb blonde part, written by the same man [Roy Clarke] who wrote Last of the Summer Wine.

I got an agent and they were doing to do A Streetcar Named Desire with Jessica Lange and I went up for it. Peter Hall was directing. I played the woman upstairs, Eunice, but I also covered Jessica. I was living out near Henley-on-Thames at the time and I was driving in and out of London.

I made a recording of the lines that I listened to, because I needed to be prepared if I had to go on. The night that we first put the returns board out, it was the biggest audience we'd had, and my hairdresser came in and said, "You're on tonight!". It was five minutes to curtain up. He said, "I'd found this wig for you."

I had no costumes of my own. Jessica is six inches taller than me. I thought, she's good strong stock and she's never going to be off. But Imogen Stubbs, who was also in it, was heaven, and she said, "You need to be prepared, because she went off in New York when she was doing it".

I'd had a very different upbringing as an actress than Jessica. She'd done many, many films. I studied at Central and they would say, when you have a big speech you drive through to the end. You don't pause; you just go like a steam engine, building to the end. The first day I went on, I was also absolutely terrified, because I'd only had one rehearsal.

My then-estranged husband, Peter Davidson, was with my daughter Georgia. Peter got her and her best friend down to the theatre and they got a front row seat in the balcony. She was out in the box office and they put the thing up saying Jessica wasn't going to play. Somebody went "Oh no!" and Georgia said, "She's really good though, the woman who's going to play her". She started giving me all this good press in the entrance!

I got into Jessica's clothes, so I looked like a waif with these long dresses. Just as I was about to go on, they made the announcement that Jessica wasn't going to be on and that Sandra Dickinson was going to be playing the part. The entire 850 people went "Ohhhh". And then I went on! And I did the show and got through it all.

Every night at the curtain call when I was playing Eunice, Jessica would have a standing ovation and I thought, "Oh how wonderful and lovely for her that she's getting this". I finished my throw-on performance and I got a standing ovation. But I also knocked 20 minutes off the play because I was terrified, but just went for it. Jessica said to me when she was back, "How did you do that time?". I said, "Well you know the first aria? I sort of did that in one breath." She is such a honey.

But we were all sick and it was Christmastime and we all had the flu. The doctor was sent to her and obviously fell in love with her immediately, as you do. But she was sick and there was no way they were going to let her go on, so I was thrown on.

It was one of the parts that I've always wanted to play, but not under those circumstances. That was probably the highlight of my career. I'd always wanted to play Blanche anyways and then I got to do it every Thursday for the schools performances.

I also loved the Daniel Alfredson movie last summer. It wasn't a big part, but he kept adding little bits for me and it was just a joyous job.

I did Barefoot in the Park when I was pregnant with Georgia with her father, which was pretty fun. We were in Leeds and my normal costume had gotten ruined. I went out and found this little mini dress. I was onstage and this woman shouted out, "That woman on stage is going to have a baby!" I couldn't hide it any longer! Like this newly-wed in Barefoot in the Park was going to have a baby. But it was great fun to do.

Of course, one of the highlights is I got married to my husband on TV in Four Weddings. We'd been together seven years and my agent said, "Are you guys going to get married?". There was this programme that gave you £5,000 to do it on the show. My grandson Ty Tennant gave me away; he was about eight. My daughter Georgia sorted the whole thing out and was one of my matrons of honour. She was my right-hand girl.

It's just been a really mixed bag, hasn't it? I did about 50 commercials when I was younger and they were all a hoot. I worked with a ton of famous directors: Alan Parker, Ridley Scott and his brother, these young directors who were up and coming who are now, of course, huge. It's been a really fun career. And long may I continue!

I hope to get to 80 anyways. My mom lasted to 93 and my dad lasted to 97, so hopefully I'll keep working. It's been a shock, because I hadn't done a play since last summer. It's been a whole year since I got out and shook my booty, so it's good to be back in the saddle.

So let's talk about The Unbuilt City

I have never done a play that's had such mixed reviews. To me, it's not a bad thing that it makes people react very differently. I love the play. I was concerned about how it was going to come off the page, because it was a beautiful read. I went to visit Glen Walford, who was going to direct it, and liked her very much. I love working with Jonathan Chambers; he is just the loveliest man and the most supportive actor.

It's an enormous challenge. It's very erudite and very deep and rich, and trying to get it all out in the 80 minutes that we have and make it everything it's possible to be has been an enormous challenge. When I did Not About Nightingales, which was Tennessee Williams' first play, as it was a new play and had never been done before, we had five weeks with Trevor Nunn to thrush it out.

With this, sadly, we only had three weeks, as it was a fringe production. We only had two previews and I think we could have done with five, because there's just so much to it. Basically, it's a work-in-progress every night and every night it's different, because of what Jonathan and I are finding in it. Last night, it was lovely and there was a lot of laughter and you could just hear people gasping.

Can you tell us more on what it's about?

It's very relevant to now and the terrible time that America is going through. The 'unbuilt city' is this one architect's dream of what he wanted New York to be to make it more conducive to healthy living. I don't just mean more sunshine; I mean more community. It's a real love letter to New York City.

My character is this woman near the end of her life and Jonathan's character is a gay man in his prime. It talks about their love lives and what they've been through. It also talks about what their immigrant parents had been through in order to bring them up in America.

It's just so rich and evocative, the whole thing. Jonathan is wonderful, because we just sort of play together. It's great for my brain at my age, using so many words. I think Keith Bunin [the writer] went to Columbia and NYU. He's very bright, young (compared to me!) writer. You can tell that he's very well educated in the way it's written. It's not full of colloquialisms and slang; it's very rich language.

What's it like to do a play that's so firmly rooted in New York in London?

Unfortunately, I think what's going on in the Government in New York and London is very similar. Both countries are in desperate need of a democracy again. It seems to me that the rich are ruling and have very little care for the common man. Because the cities are so similar in that sense, it's very relevant.

The history portrayed in the play can't compete with London's history, because England is a much older country, but I think it's very relevant to what's going on in both countries and both cities now. It's a bit heartbreaking with the Grenfell business. This is a play about architecture and making it safe and caring for its residents. It's so linked to what's going on here.

Tell us a bit about the character you play

Her mother fell in love with an American soldier in WWII and her father went back to America to raise enough money to get her and her mother over there. She grew up with a kind of humble background, but her father worked in a patent office and then came up with this invention and made an enormous amount of money. Then both parents died, so she was left an orphan with a great deal of money.

She wanted to be an artist and then realised she wasn't going to be one, but she was very good at seeing fine things. She became a supporter of the arts and spent her money on that. She's quite a rich character, because she started out in an ordinary upbringing and then found herself in a very comfortable situation.

My dream when I was a teenager was that I wanted to buy a castle in Scotland and have a salon in it and have all the stuff going on in the world of art discussed. This is very like my young fantasy. She would invite artists and architects and painters to this townhouse she has in Brooklyn Heights, and she was able to support them with the money she was left.

She's very interesting to play. She's also at the end of her life. Her back is against the wall.

How has doing the show been so far?

I think just purely technically, learning all the dialogue and getting it up to performance level has been a huge challenge, because it's a new play and because we owe it to the author to do the best we can with it.

But it's been a joy working with Jonathan. He's one of the producers of the play and he is the most generous and supportive actor that I've ever worked with. We had Keith with us for two weeks, which was very interesting and were able to talk to him about it. It's been a really rich, rewarding experience. I look forward to every night.

Why do you think people should come and see The Unbuilt City?

I think it makes you think about your own life and what you want to get out of it and the world around you. My father wrote a book in 1960 called The Nonhuman Environment. It's obviously gone out of print; he died a few years ago, but he was a world-famous psychoanalyst. It talks about man's relationship with his non-human environment, the world around him.

That's very much what the play is about. It's about loving the world and not just loving each other. My character says to Jonathan's character, "I need to know how you love someone, because I feel the way you try to love someone is the way you try to love the world." Her life has been spent doing her bit trying to enrich the world. It's very thought-provoking, very funny, very moving.

Any advice for young actresses?

What's really exciting is that my grandson, Ty Tennant, is pursuing acting! You've got to have a hide of armour. You get so many rejections; it's a really tough game. If you can do something else to earn money, go for it. At times, things are lean and there's not always work around.

The two things are: to have another string to your bow to just earn a crust, and not to take any rejection personally, because it happens to everybody. And to stay positive; it's very easy to get despondent and I think it's essential. Just keep bouncing back!

The Unbuilt City is on at the King's Head Theatre to 30 June.

Photo Credit: PND Photography

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