Interview: Carol Harrison Talks ALL OR NOTHING

Carol Harrison is probably best known for playing Louise Raymond in EastEnders. Her other screen work includes Brushstrokes, Get Back and London's Burning. Carol also works regularly in the theatre and has written, directed, produced the musical All or Nothing, which she also stars in. After three hugely successful tours, the show lands in the West End for the first time, this February.

What first brought you into theatre?

Oh I had such an imagination, and when I was a little girl I used to live in my fantasy world. In fact, when I went into school I told everyone my name was Rosemary. I just loved the name, but there was a time when a little girl came round to my house, and she went "Can I play with Rosemary?" My mum was like "There's no Rosemary here dear..." and the girl pointed to me and said, "There she is," and I was like right off we go, exit. So yeah I loved my fantasy world and never wanted to escape it. It was much better than my reality.

What happened in your fantasy world?

Anything could happen. I was Doris Day when I was going to the shops, and the next minute I was a spy sneaking in the kitchen. It was a world of imagination, and I wanted to be an actress from when I was six. We were really poor, but every now and then my mum would take me to the Palladium. I remember going there first when I was seven, but I'd already made up my mind by then.

I do remember the first thing I was in at school; I was thinking about this the other day. In primary school we were doing Goldilocks and the Three Bears and I of course wanted to be Goldilocks - the star, but I didn't get it. I was the baby bear, and it was nice actually because I realised that I was really good and could make people laugh. So I totally upstaged Goldilocks and stole the biggest part.

And from then I was determined. I grew up in Upton Park in the East End, and there wasn't much opportunity; but I did take myself off to Newham Youth Theatre when I was 11, and I also worked with Joan Littlewood of Theatre Royal. So that was my training. When people were asking who's going to work in an office, factory, or shop, I said I was going to be an actress and go to drama school.

They called it a fantasy, but that's how I got into it. I did get a place at drama school, but that was when I was too young - however they did say to come back when I was old enough. I was on course to do that, but I left home and got a job straight in theatre; in 1973 - so I've been working for 45 years now.

What's it like to have a 45-year career (not including your starring role as Baby Bear, of course)?

It's gone very quickly, certainly in the last 25 years. It gets faster as you get older somehow, I don't know why. It's very weird; I remember being the youngest in a room, and now I'm always the oldest - and the longest in the business of anyone around me. But I'm constantly learning, because if you're never open to learning more you should stop. This show has been an incredible learning curve, what with writing, directing, producing and being in it myself.

What is it like to write, direct and then star?

Knackering. It's quite difficult at times because I'm in the show myself, and there is that moment where I have to cut off in the interval to put on my make-up and be the actress. But then I'm still always being asked things, and having stuff bombard me. It's been a real rollercoaster really, and I'll tell you the main reason I produced it is because I had to; no one else would do it.

There were too many objections; people said it wasn't conventional, and I wanted it all to be live and authentic, but they said no one would ever come and see it. They didn't think mods would go to the theatre, but it's brought in so many new audiences, which I'm very proud of.

I've always been unconventional. They said no one would go and see it unless you've got someone from The X Factor in it - that's the only way you get bums on seats. Well over my dead body; you've got to keep trucking at the end of the day, and keep on going until you get someone to believe in it and invest. And I did that myself.

You hustled, which I suppose is something you've been doing from day one really?

Definitely! But the more I had to fight it, the more determined I got that I was going to do it. And the show's done great. Lots of people come and see it five or six times. And even now they're saying to me, "I've got my tickets, can't wait!".

What makes them keep coming back? (Apart from it's brilliant, of course)

Haha, it's brilliant, yes! It's also a great experience for people; it's very authentic and it makes you laugh and cry. It really transports you to that feeling of the 60s and the excitement that comes with it. I had one guy who had been four times and he said to me, "You know what, the Government should give everyone over the age of 60 a pass to see this show, because you come out rejuvenated. They'd save a fortune on the NHS."

I did write to Jeremy Hunt to tell him that, but we didn't get a response from him. However, we did get something back from the Shadow Health Secretary who's seen the show twice now. He loved it and said that the man was right, and if he were the Minister he would bring it up in Parliament.

What an achievement that must feel like; to bring together so many people both involved in the creation of it - and externally, people who've never engaged with theatre before.

And also people of different ages, because what's lovely is that it's not just people who are my age that go and see it; it's youngsters, or the oldies bring their grandchildren, who then bring their mates because they love it so much. They really get into the music and they come back, and you can have three generations all sitting together in the audience, from the same family.

Our audience is from 17 to 70s and everyone's learning. So it's wonderful that people keep coming back; we have rosettes for people who've been over 20 times. And people travel from all over to come and see it. The first night we had someone down from Edinburgh, and he didn't have anywhere to stay - he just knew he had to catch it.

In the beginning there used to be a lot of people who would get up and go to the toilet or the bar, because they thought it was like a gig and they weren't used to the theatre experience. It was really exciting; a bit disruptive, but they've learnt more now. And that's really wonderful.

And the show's coming to the West End now...

I think for me what's wonderful about it now coming to the West End is obviously because it's London. The show takes place when London was at its height of cool. It was everything: fashion, photography, music, art; and it was working-class people saying "This is us", and the establishment going "Oh it'll be a novelty for a couple of years" - well here we are 50 years later.

It's a homegrown British musical. There are so many American musicals, and of course they're wonderful; but I'd like some tourists to see a show that's proud to be British and talking about Britain in a positive way. It's so exciting going up the escalators and seeing the posters.

It's funny, everybody was saying that it's got to go to the West Ed, and they automatically assume that everything does - but it's not that simple. It takes money and finding the theatre, amongst other things. But we do hope that after this we find another theatre as well, or come back to the Arts. The Arts feels like the right venue for it.

I always wanted to do something that had a permanent home in London, like the Rocky Horror did when it was in Kings Road. And as I've said, because it's a homegrown British musical celebrating our culture I hope that it will find somewhere to go. I'm sure people will come, and they'll probably come from all over the world and learn about Britain. Nowadays it seems to be a dirty word to be 'proud' of Britain, but we should have pride. We're pretty amazing, and have always been brilliant at music and theatre.

What are the main themes and messages of the show? We know that it's about coolness in terms of culture, and the hustle involved in getting your art seen - but is that it?

The story is told through the life of Small Faces, and it uses their music. So it's really that classic rock 'n' roll tale of a rise to fame of these extremely talented youngsters, and then their eventual demise of the band - the tensions of being ripped off and also the tensions between them.

Steve Marriott was a fantastic artist. His songwriting and vocals were incredible, but he didn't handle his fame too well and it broke up the band. At the height of his career he just walked off the stage - so it is the classic rock 'n' roll tale.

Funnily enough there was one review that said, "Well, it's a bit predictable...", and that's silly because that's what happened to most bands in those days. People always had to battle against contracts, so it is kind of tragic. Like I said, it makes you laugh and cry, but it also makes you sing and dance as well, because it's all played live - so it's like being at a gig.

And you've had so much wonderful support with the show

We have indeed. Steve's daughter is the vocal coach, and P.P. Arnold is very involved too. She played with the band and did Tin Soldier with them; she's a great friend and has helped an awful lot. We've had a lot of support, and people say that we've done the boys proud, so that means a lot to me. I'm greatly proud of what I've achieved for them, and there's a lot of talent that has come together to create this show.

And now the cast has an album, and a vinyl out...

There are 29 tracks on the album and the vinyl has 15 on it due to the time limit that it has. We recorded it in the break between the spring and autumn tour in August, and then it got mastered in September. It's fab. And the vinyl is beautiful; it's like a target. There had to be a vinyl; it's so important to me as it's part of who I am. I've still got all of my original vinyls, but I'm having to re-buy some of them because my old ones make such a noise it sounds like they're burning at the stake.

Some would call that vintage now.

Too vintage to be honest. I've kept them all though; it's my history - I was listening to this music. I was first introduced to Steve when I was like eight or nine because he was friends with my cousin. They lived two streets away from me.

Would you say that creating this show has been the highlight of your career?

I think it's been something that I have to be most proud of as an achievement. It's always really difficult to answer that one; I remember someone asking me what the highlight of my career was around the time I was in EastEnders. I thought to myself: oh, maybe I haven't had it yet.

And then after I'd done this interview I'd walked out onto the street and Ringo Starr was coming the other way. He went "Alright". And I went "Alright". And he went "Lovely work..." and I was like "Well, likewise". I thought that that's quite a highlight, a Beatle recognising me.

I've really grafted for this show. It's been a long time doing it, and it's been quite painful at times, so it's not the automatic thing where you go "Oh, it's the highlight of my career". I expected the highlight to be where I sort of go "Marvellous", but there are occasions when that feeling just hits me and I know that it will when it goes into the West End.

Our press night is my birthday, and it's really weird because I remember listening to that Beatles song on the Sergeant Pepper album that has an age in it. Do you know the one I'm talking about?

Are you going to sing it for me?

[Sings]. "When I'm 64..."

That's what I am this birthday, and I can't believe it. It just seems so old. But at least I'm still here, and so many wonderful people aren't - especially over the last couple of years. Press evening will be a very special night and I'm going to be thinking so many things, and have so many people supporting.

We've invited a lot of people and we're hoping for other musicians to come down, but we'll see. The thing is they've influenced so many other artists; like Paul Weller for example - his favourite artists was Steve Marriot, and Paul's style is very much based on Steve.

They were the face of an era, and all these years later they're still inspiring people, including you...

Ha, I never imagined I'd be doing this though. I'm not the star of the show; we have two Steve Marriots who are - a young and an old one. The older Steve is played by Chris Simmons and he is unbelievable. His performance is just marvellous and the young boys who act and play are also wonderful musicians and actors.

The young Steve, Sam Pope, is just fabulous, and it's uncanny the way he performs like Steve. I sort of catch him at the side of my eye and he's just so Steve. I play his mum who I knew personally.

What's it like to have to honour these real people?

It's always so challenging when you play someone who is real, because you have to do them justice. Steve's mother died before we opened. She was 100 and not very well, but I was hoping we'd get it on before she went.

His sister said that I've got her down and when I was first met her to talk about writing the show she was very pleased that I was going to play her. She'd liked me in Eastenders and she even said to me, "You've got the right look. You're glamorous, and I was very glamorous." Lots of people say I've captured her very well. She was the East End mum who adored him.

If there were a song or an album that would provide the soundtrack of your life, what would it be?

Funnily enough, All or Nothing is quite me, because all of my life has been like that. I came from nothing, and at times I've had it all and then nothing again. I've never had an easy life. Things have always been hard for me, and nothing has ever been handed to me on a plate so it is always all or nothing.

Finally, what advice would you give to people who are from a place that isn't a big provider of opportunity?

Believe in your dream. At school they said to me that I'd never get anywhere if I were a dreamer. All I had were dreams; I didn't have anything else, and neither will they if they're from where we are. So, just go for your dreams and always be prepared to learn.

Keep learning and keep improving yourself. You have to be the very best you can be. It really irks me when people say they want to be famous for famous sake. What you need to be is incredible at what you do. And just stick to it and go for it.

Nowadays there's so little opportunity, you might as well pursue your dreams. I'm currently mentoring a young lad who's in a mod band called The Blend. I've known him for years and followed his career, and he's just recorded an album on Pete Townsend's boat. They're supporting The Who next year, and he's only 19; but he's a youngster who is pursuing his dreams and that's wonderful.

All or Nothing opens at Arts Theatre on 6 February

Photo credit: Phil Weedon

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