Interview: Aizzah Fatima & Erica Gould on Dirty Pakistani Lingerie

Following its sold-out tour in 2014/15, the award-winning Dirty Pakistani Lingerie - a one-woman show based on Muslim-American women - returns for a 15-date UK tour. BWW:UK spoke to writer and actress Aizzah Fatima and Director Erica Gould about the production.

How do you feel Muslim women are currently represented in modern theatre?

Aizzah: There is limited representation of Muslim women in theatre in the US. Often Muslim female characters are written by men, or by people not familiar with the cultural heritage. In order to have accurate representation on stage, we need many more women and writers with a better understanding of Muslim cultures.

Erica: I think the images of Muslim women in the theatre, to the extent that they are represented at all, are pretty reductive. It was important to us to put complex, three-dimensional characters on stage, women whose gender, religion, and cultural background certainly inform, but do not exclusively define, their experience and identity.

The show focuses on Muslim, Pakistani women after 9/11. How different do you feel the play would be if you moved the setting before 9/11?

A: The play explores themes that are timeless and universal such as identity, sexuality, religion, culture, and family. I would say the play continues to be timely given assumptions about Muslims propagated by certain American politicians (as well as politicians in Europe), and polls in the US showing a large percentage of people in some parts of America who favour racist policies against Muslims. Negative stereotypes of Muslims occurred prior to 9/11 as well; after the Iranian hostage crisis, or during the gulf war for example. The stories explore the female experience as well as the immigrant experience. Any new immigrant community in the US has faced similar trials and tribulations be it Italian, Irish, Japanese, or Jewish. Muslims just happen to be the newest wave. The six year old character in the play whose father has been taken away as a case of mistaken identity wouldn't exist pre-9/11. After 9/11, many Muslim and South Asian/Arab men were put in jails for months and longer by law enforcement while their families had no idea where they were. This character is based on a real incident that wouldn't have happened before 9/11.

E: Although racism in America has been part of our national fabric from the country's inception, including against Muslims--which Thomas Jefferson actually references and condemns--the tenor of this clearly escalated after 9/11, and continues to mutate. I think the play would have been relevant before 9/11, because of the universal themes it explores--not only of the immigrant experience, but also the struggle most women still face to fully realize their potential in a society that does not provide equal pay for equal work and forces many women to make choices between family and career that men are less likely to face. But exploring the experiences faced by Muslim Americans certainly resonates more deeply if is set after 9/11, and of course this issue been recently injected into the national conversation in a particularly virulent way through the rhetoric we are seeing in the Republican presidential primary.

The title itself could be seen as controversial in certain communities. What reaction are you looking to provoke from this?

A: I hope that people are able to acknowledge we as a society have an issue with race and female sexuality, and that the show allows for an open and honest conversation around these issues. As part of our 15-city tour, we are doing post show discussions after each show to accomplish this.

E: It is our hope to encourage a dialogue about cultural, religious, and ethnic identity, and to explore how much more we may have in common with each other across those lines than we might initially assume.

The production has been well received in America and internationally. To what/whom does the production owe its success?

A: There is a tiny army of supporters behind each successful solo play. First and foremost, I owe the success of the play to the women whose stories it tells. I am forever grateful to these women for sharing their stories with me and allowing me in return to share them with the world. Matt Hoverman in whose solo show class (gosolo.org) I first developed these characters, and without his support and encouragement this play might not exist. Wynn Handman, a former student of Sanford Meisner and my acting teacher in NYC, who after seeing me perform a very dramatic monologue about rape in class told me I should do comedy. I was very offended because I considered myself a serious actor! Wynn then allowed me to bring in characters from the play to class to further develop them. Wynn saw my ability to do comedy before I did, and allowed me to understand how a dramatic moment can be enhanced by comedy and vice versa. Finally, I'm grateful to Erica Gould (director), and Cobina Gillitt (dramaturge) who helped further shape the play into the production it has become today.

E: I think one of the elements that has been significant in the positive response to the piece is its universality. I don't think this is something Aizzah and I anticipated when we first started developing the piece back in 2011. I think we have both been deeply affected by the response the work has received from audiences of such wide-ranging cultural, religious, and ethnic backgrounds. I do believe that art can illuminate the universal through an honest exploration of the specific. And I think one of the primary universalities that the piece taps into is that of the American experience of "hyphenated" identity, the commonality of the immigrant journey, which is whether one's family has been here for five months or five generations. The piece explores the inherent tension between what has been left behind and what we take with us, between the impulse to assimilate, and the desire to maintain our identity, between what we hold onto and what we fear we may have forgotten. And more and more, I think this story is resonating deeply in Europe and the UK as well, as immigration here becomes increasingly more prominent in the cultural and political conversation.

As the show focuses on women in America, do you feel audiences in other countries can still relate on the same level to the material?

A: The old adage about making theatre specific so it can be universal is true, and I've been lucky to see it at work when performing this show in many different parts of the world. If you know a woman or are one, then there is a part of this play that you will resonate with you.

Dirty Pakistani Lingerie is touring country-wide until Sunday 10th April 2016.

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