Interview: THE TRAGICALLY HIP on Their Legacy as Canada's Beloved Band

Very few bands have made a mark on the Canadian music scene quite like The Tragically Hip. Woven into Canadian history are their songs filled with melodies and lyrics that have shaped a generation, reflecting on the Canadian experience. From their early roots in Kingston, Ontario to winning the hearts of millions across Canada, The Tragically Hip have become more than just a band, but rather a national treasure. 

The Tragically Hip, also referred to as “The Hip,” was formed in Kingston, Ontario in 1983. Comprised of members, Rob Baker (guitar), Gord Downie (vocals, guitar), Johnny Fay (drums), Paul Langlois (guitar), and Gord Sinclair, the Canadian rock band started off playing small music venues throughout the ‘80s until they were discovered and signed a long-term record deal by MCA. Their self-titled EP, “The Tragically Hip” was released in 1987. 

The Hip’s musical style is rock at its core with elements of alternative, folk, and blues. As the band picked up speed in the ‘90s, they further explored unique sounds through different structures and chord progressions. The band’s lyrics, often filled with emotion, sung by frontman Gord Downie, touch on themes of Canadian life, history, and reflection. The music of The Tragically Hip has united the band with the rest of Canada through its feelings of nostalgia, resilience, and connection. 

Throughout their impressive and long career, The Hip have released a total of 14 studio albums with 9 hitting #1 in Canada. With 17 JUNO Awards and induction into both the Canadian Music Hall of Fame and Canada’s Walk of Fame to name a few, the band has been recognized greatly for both their music and philanthropic work. In 2016, the band embarked on their final concert tour after their frontman, Gord Downie announced his terminal brain cancer diagnosis. The Tragically Hip played their final show as a 5-piece group as part of their “Man Machine Poem” tour on August 20th, 2016. The show took place at the K-Rock Centre in Kingston, Ontario and was broadcasted by the Canadian Broadcasting Corporation as well as multiple platforms. Over 11.7 million people tuned in for the performance. Gord Downie sadly passed away in October of 2017 and was revered by thousands of people across Canada. 

Last month, The Tragically Hip with the help of Gord Downie’s brother, director Mike Downie, released a four part docuseries, entitled, “The Tragically Hip: No Dress Rehearsal.” The docuseries gave a raw and intimate glimpse into the band’s journey from their early beginnings to their later years. Filled with stories of the band’s highs and lows, the docuseries presented never before seen personal and archival footage detailing the band’s growth. “The Tragically Hip” "No Dress Rehearsal” had its world premiere at the Toronto International Film Festical (TIFF) on September 5 before dropping officially on Amazon Prime video on September 20. 

Recently, I had the opportunity to sit down with the remaining members of The Tragically Hip and director of the docuseries, Mike Downie, on behalf of BroadwayWorld before the special presentation of “The Tragically Hip: No Dress Rehearsal” at the VIFF Centre in Vancouver, BC. With a career spanning decades, we discussed The Hip’s journey, diving into the personal stories, memories, and moments that have shaped their legacy as a band. With Mike Downie, we touched on his process of putting together the docuseries. We reflected on significant memories that he had with both his brother and the band that helped him build the final product. Read the full interview below! 

Why do you think Canada embraced The Tragically Hip so widely, transcending age and demographics?

GORD SINCLAIR: I think it began when we started playing gigs in Kingston. We started off playing at the university campus and then moved to the “townie” bars where both the Queen’s kids and the “townies” were. People from different walks of life would all be together staring at each other, but would ultimately be united through the music. I think we just sort of built on that as we went along. We primarily focused on live music as it was all about entertaining people for us. Being from Kingston, there were not a lot of great live bands coming through, so it was a special event when it actually happened. I think we were always cognizant of that and tried to put on a good show. We would always strive to also put on a better show the next time we came through town. I think everything just kind of grew organically from there. 

With the release of the new docuseries, how did you feel about having your story told in such a public and detailed way? Were there any hesitations about sharing certain aspects of your journey? 

PAUL LANGLOIS: It’s funny because we all did the interviews for the docuseries separately, so we really had no idea what Mike (the director) was asking the other guys. I thought he was asking me about all of the “troubles” and was just getting puff interviews with the other guys. It wasn’t until we started seeing rough cuts of the docuseries that I realized, “oh he did that to everybody.” He asked some tough questions and some really difficult and sad things happened with our families and such. It screened at TIFF and I stayed for half. You know I liked it, but it felt strange to watch it in a full room of people whom I did not know. It was my first time seeing the final copy, so I left at intermission. I just thought I was better off having a pint than watching episode 3 and 4 … I know how it ends. There is a strangeness to it, but in my opinion (and I think all of us can agree), Mike and his team did a beautiful job of telling the truth. Everything was very real and I’m happy with it. If we didn’t like it, I don’t think we would be able to handle it. It’s nice that we like it. 

Certain moments in episode 3 of the docuseries are quite candid. As George Stroumboulopoulos mentioned, fans like to believe you’re always best friends even though we know that is not always realistic. It was surprising to learn that you hadn’t been together for years; especially given that you’re all based in Kingston, Ontario. Has this project inspired you all to reconnect more often or do you still feel relieved to have more time for your families after so many years of touring? 

ROB BAKER: A little bit of both really. An incident happened a few years back. I was in Rome and I read something in the paper about the Universal Music Group fire and how stuff was lost from it. I got in touch with Johnny and we were texting back and forth saying things like, “did we lose master tapes in this fire?” That kind of started this whole thing of, “where is our stuff?” The incident prompted an archiving process for us and it started to pull us back together in a way and increased the communication between us after years of us going our separate ways and grieving separately. Johnny really took the helm on the archiving process by going through our music. We all had sort of taken on different roles trying to pull the stuff together for the documentary, book, and re-issues. Now we do Zoom meetings every other week, so it’s good! 

Photo Credit: Amazon MGM Studios

“Ahead by a Century” was your last live song you played together at Slush Puppie Place (formerly the K Rock Centre) located on “The Tragically Hip Way” in Kingston. There is a permanent banner installed inside that says: “Home of The Tragically Hip, A National Celebration, August 20th, 2016” with all the band member’s names listed. When Queen's University hosts their convocation there, they play “Ahead by a Century” as the grads walk out. How perfect for them to hear “no dress rehearsal, this is our life.” How does it make you feel to have that kind of legacy in your hometown? 

ROB BAKER: Wow, I didn’t know about “Ahead by a Century” being used at the Queen’s convocation, that’s nice to hear! At Slush Puppie Place, they have these big pictures up of each of the band members. They’re on doors to all of the suites and on poles throughout the place. Gordie Sinclair and I were there after an Alice Cooper show and we were meeting him after in the arena. When we were talking to him and shaking his hand, he kept looking over my shoulder then back at me. He was doing this back-and-forth movement quite a bit. When Gordie and I left later on, we realized that there was this gigantic picture of me that I was standing right in front of which is the reason why he was doing the back-and-forth. 

JOHNNY FAY: Regarding the street signs for “The Tragically Hip Way,” it’s funny because the signs keep getting stolen. I’ve taken my kids down that street and have said, “pay attention to the street signs” and we look and the first one’s gone. Then I go, “there should be one over here” and the second one ends up being gone as well. My son said, “you know what I think they should do dad, I think they should make it like one of those barbeque things where you plug it in and if you put your hand on it, you get your hand burned off.” He said, “you’d save a whole bunch of money and the signs wouldn’t have to be bought again and again.” I said, “actually that wouldn’t be such a bad idea.” 

It feels great to leave such a legacy in Kingston! All of those little things that happened to us in that city were part of us growing up. For example, I remember we played our first gig at the Kingston Artists Association (the limestone buildings beside the old police station on Queen street). All these little things that have happened to us in the city made us feel very proud to have been from there. It’s all very positive and was a part of our growth.

PAUL LANGLOIS: I used to live on the east end across the causeway and I would take “The Tragically Hip Way” everyday taking my girls to school and whatnot. I never saw a person that I knew on that street. It’s just one block long, but the arena is there. I was just waiting because I always wanted to say something funny to a person I saw on the street. I’ve only said this once and it was to Doug Gilmour from the Leafs. He was the General Manager of the Kingston Frontenacs at the time and was walking with some young athletic guys (a few guys from the team, 4 or 5 of them). I stopped and was like, “HEY… get off my f-ing street!” His reaction was great, he was like “I love this street!” 

Many bands, especially those formed in high school, often struggle to stay together, yet your band has managed to stay united for decades. With five members in your band, was there anything unique you did to maintain your long-lasting bond? What advice would you give to young bands hoping to achieve the longevity you've had?

GORD SINCLAIR: Canada is a tough country to tour. You spend more time sitting in a van than you do playing music. It breaks up a lot of groups for sure. We were really fortunate that we were a group of friends first before we became a band. The most important element in my mind when being a musician and songwriting would be that you have to learn how to listen. That’s kind of how we managed our unit so well. We didn’t always get along all the time, but because we had an odd number of members, there was always someone that could referee. We always tried to always talk it out when we got into a disagreement. We ran our business and song writing decisions (like album sequencing, etc) based on the consensus. Everyone had to agree or we would look at it another way again. Sometimes it took an awful long time to come to a decision, but we would always arrive at it together. Very early on in our career we decided to credit all the songwriting to the group and we split and shared everything equally. 

Over the decades, you’ve had countless performances and tours. Is there a particular concert or moment that stands out as especially meaningful to you? 

JOHNNY FAY: We would all probably say different places and it also would change every tour. I remember when we went to Denmark. The weather was great and it was June. I will never forget that tour. I also remember when we went to New Zealand. We had a couple of days off and went to dinner. Paul bought some wine and I remember just marveling that we were in New Zealand! Each guy in the band will probably say a different place. It's the experiences we had in different places that stay with us, more so than the performances themselves.

PAUL LANGLOIS: We have been to places all over the States. We’ve been back to cities like Dallas, Austin, and San Francisco so many times and were able to play larger venues each time we returned mostly due to word of mouth. We had a little bit of help in San Francisco, Chicago, and Dallas with some airplay … not a lot, but some, which certainly always helps. We’ve played The Filmore in San Francisco a bunch! I can’t really distinguish each performance from each other, but we learned to love playing The Filmore. We also learned to love playing The Cabaret Metro in Chicago as well. You would get a different answer from everybody. We each experienced every performance differently as we mentioned in our book. 

ROB BAKER: If someone outside of the group walked into the room that we were playing in or wherever we were, suddenly it became a performance and everyone played differently. It was definitely a different approach and atmosphere if it was just the five of us playing together in a room. We’ve played to 500,000 people in places like Amsterdam and we’ve played to two people in places like Hoboken, New Jersey. They were both performances and I think they were both good performances. It’s not like one was better than the other. For the one in Hoboken, the two people that were there came to probably 60 shows after that. They were lifelong fans and I’m still in touch with one of them (one of them died). A gig is a gig! Whether it was a good gig or not depended on what happened between the five of us on stage. It didn’t have anything to do with how many people were there or how many t-shirts we sold or any of that. 

Is this docuseries the way that The Tragically Hip signs off forever? Or is there more to accomplish together? Can fans look forward to any more nostalgic moments in the future?

GORD SINCLAIR: I don’t think this is the final chapter. We’re actually releasing a coffee table book on October 1st which is a really good companion piece to what we’ve just done with Mike. Like Robbie said earlier, we’re in pretty constant communication with each other and are always entertaining ideas. I would say we’ve had a busy year. We’re really fortunate that we are still doing things together after 40 years. We don’t really make music together anymore unfortunately because one piece of our unit is not here. Johnny has been amazing about going through our archives of recorded material and is still finding stuff that is exciting to listen to. There is a lots of stuff that for one reason or another didn’t make it on a record. We have a box set coming out soon and it’s really neat! It’s stuff that we’re not just putting out just to put out. It’s really cool material recorded back at a time where the LP format was long. Over the years there was stuff that didn’t make the cut for one reason or the other. After going back to listen to it now, Johnny’s been instrumental with it and would say “you wouldn’t believe what I just found, check it out.” It’s onwards and upwards from here. 

ROB BAKER: We just released a song called “Wait So Long,” that we recorded in 1989. It sounds fresh and is a good track. I loved that song when we recorded it and I think people are really enjoying hearing it now. Every record had songs like that; ones that we recorded and as Gord said, “for one reason or another didn’t make the record.” This was due to factors such as time constraints or if there were too many songs in one key or too many songs at one tempo. Eventually, something’s gotta give. We put out the song, “Ouch,” when we re-released “Road Apples.” We had “Twist My Arm” and “Ouch;” both were kind of funky numbers at the time and we had a conversation about it in the recording studio. We were saying that if we put both of those songs on the record, people were going to compare us to the Red Hot Chili Peppers. It’s not really a valid comparison, but we thought that’s what people would have said. They would say, “oh, they are a funk band.” We would say, “no we’re not, but we like to play funky music sometimes.” So after all of those conversations, one song had to take a backseat. Now, 30 years later, it finally came out! People have said, “why didn’t you release that sooner?” Now people know, there was a reason. There are still lots of great songs that haven’t been released. 

For all of you, what is your favorite “Hip” song and why? 

JOHNNY FAY: Mine would be, “Opiated” because of  a great guitar riff that Robbie brought in. I remember recording that song in that studio for some reason and I think it was one of the last tracks that we played on that record towards the end of the session. It just sort of encapsulated the sound of our band to me. 

GORD SINCLAIR: For me it’s “Grace Too.” We have used “Grace Too” as the opener for our sets for forever. Each individual musician in the group kind of follows in order starting with the drums, then base, etc, so our sound guy had to frantically build in. By the time we would break into it, we were sounding good. Most importantly in my mind, I can hear the individual talent, contributions, and creativity of each of the guys in the band. I can’t think of a show literally since ‘95 where we didn’t play “Grace Too” in a set. We’ve always played it, it’s a good “hip” song. 

ROB BAKER: Honestly, it would probably change for me on a day-to-day and/or show to show basis. It’s a hard one, but I’m going to say, “Pigeon Camera.” The song has a riff that Johnny brought in on the guitar. When we recorded the song, it was the first time we recorded a record with Chris Tsangarides in London. Everything was built up with the bass and drums. We spent three-and-a-half weeks on bass and drums and Paul and I had to record all of our guitar parts in two-and-a-half days. The team said, “okay Pigeon Camera … go!” I played it twice (solo included). Afterwards, they said, “which one do you prefer?” And I said, “I think I like the second one.” Chris agreed and said, “me too,” and that’s what’s on the record!  I didn’t go back in and do a bunch of overdubs or anything. When I hear the song on the radio now I think, “holy shit, I was pretty good back then.” I couldn’t do that now. 

PAUL LANGLOIS: That’s a really great answer. You know it just shows that “Grace Too” is a very “band” song and so are “Opiated” and “Pigeon Camera.” I really like how Johnny brought that riff in because it’s a different kind of style of guitar playing. I wouldn’t have thought of that kind of rhythm for the guitar and it’s a beautiful solo. For my favourite “hip” song, it would change day-by-day for me as well. I would say our song, “Something On” because I like how it’s kind of thrashy. It’s tight and with a thrash sound to it, I just always loved it. We were always trying to hit all of these little things in it and we did! It was a fun song to play (especially live), but you had to be ready. It was also a challenging song to play as well.

JOHNNY FAY: I remember when we argued over the version. Gord and I thought it was the one that we picked, but Steve Berlin said, “no it’s this one, we’re going to do this one.” I got so infuriated with him and when I looked over at him, he was smirking. Steve was just trying to get my, “go.” He did it for days and would say stuff like, “no it’s not going to be that one, it’s going to be this one.” There was a lot of that kind of stuff on that record which was fun because he was a great producer. That was a good record to make. 

Photo: Gord Downie. Credit: Gord Hawkins. 

What do you hope audiences, both fans of The Tragically Hip and those who may be new to the band’s story, take away from the docuseries? 

MIKE DOWNIE: When we were making the docuseries, we were trying to be very conscious of three different columns of fans. First, there were the hardcore fans. We really wanted to blow their minds a bit, so we needed unseen footage and stories that they didn’t know already. This wasn’t too hard to do as the band was so private for so many years. Next, there was the middle column, which I would say was the casual fan or maybe even the lapsed fan. People that maybe got excited for the first number of records, but for all sorts of reasons didn’t follow the band’s progress throughout the years. To those fans, we wanted to show them that there was always incredible material being made by them. No matter how well the band was  getting along or what challenges they were facing, they kept making great music together in their middle and late years. Lastly, that leaves us with the new fan. With this documentary, I really wanted to take somebody from 0 to 100 in four hours really showing them who the band was: small town guys who were humble, ambitious, and loyal. This was a story of a brotherhood and that theme was really baked into the storytelling. I hoped that new fans, even if not specifically interested in The Hip, might become curious about our country and what has excited so many Canadians for years. If this film can spark that interest, then it’s worth it!

What was your approach to structuring the docuseries? Did you have a specific vision from the beginning, or did the story take shape more organically during production? 

MIKE DOWNIE: From the beginning, I visualized the docuseries as a graph. The beginning was a slowly rising line. The second episode was when the line would really start to rise. The third episode would be the bumpier section. At that point, the guys were a band for a while and events such as Gordie going solo shook the foundations up a bit. The last episode was a tragedy and showed the guys in many ways coming back together organically. Everything was clear for me in the beginning, so I did a lot of research. I had a tight shooting script and worked hard to put all the stories together in a way that made sense on paper. Sometimes in storytelling, there’s real advantages to slicing and dicing the timeline and moving it around. We did that a little bit at the beginning of the first and last episode. 

The story of the band is just so strong. Moving through time, we see them enter different phases of their career and how their relationship together evolved. I didn’t want to complicate anything, I just wanted to show everyone how it all played out. When we were in the editing process, we had this idea to make the music move around in contrast to the linear aspect of the story. You’ll notice that in episode one, we bring in songs from much later in the band’s career to make a sort of editorial point. As we start to get to know the band, seeing them in and around Kingston, we hear the song, “Are We Family,” in the first episode. Through this, we make a point that The Tragically Hip is more than just a band or a brotherhood, it is a family. After, we proceed to meet the family members as we go forward. 

Out of all the episodes, the third one clearly had cumulative tensions. All five individuals in the band are all very smart with different and strong opinions. They are all strong characters in the story. I kind of wrap up everything under complexity. Things were simple being in a band together. It was all for one and one for all; all five members against the world. Once they reached a certain level of success and had their own families, things were not as simple as they used to be. It does come out in different ways if you think about it, for anyone, if you start a family or add new paths to your life, it doesn’t typically get simpler. It is almost guaranteed that it will get more complicated. I think that shows in both episodes 3 and 4. 

How did working on this docuseries impact you personally, both as a filmmaker and as Gord Downie’s brother? Did it change your understanding or perspective of him and/or the band in any way or were you just retelling what you already knew? 

MIKE DOWNIE: There were definitely some insights and personal revelations I had while making the doc. I was always a little bit aware of my brother’s perspective when it came to recording (I would be privy to certain things). I came to really appreciate and respect how the five band members contributed equally to their work. Obviously, Gord’s lyrics were important but, there are a lot of great lyrics out there that won’t reach a lot of people without the right musical home. I really came to appreciate the contributions of all the members of the band. Many times in the docuseries you can hear things like, “oh well Gord Sinclair brought this to us…” and they would be referring to a melody, chord progression or whatever it was. That was a big thing for me; I really started to see how things came about and learned about how the members such as Gord or Paul came up with certain riffs, etc. 

Furthermore, I knew my brother was a diligent and hard-working person, but having all of his notebooks and his day timers allowed me to really see how organized he was. When you see him on stage, he is so dynamic and sort of possessed and wild. Of course this shouldn’t be surprising, but in his regular life, he was really structured. He had a real appreciation for the process of things and it was evident in his notes. You could see that he never took a day off. He had lists of all of the things that he was doing everyday and once he completed them, he crossed them out. In his notebooks, you can just see him grabbing little pieces of life all the time. You can tell he tried to hold onto everything he encountered. At first I thought he was doing it for future song ideas, but I soon realized that it was for something deeper than that. I could tell he was really trying to savor so much of life. You know if somebody said something to you and it was a turn of phrase, you’d be like “oh that’s kind of cool.” If it was Gord, he would seize the moment and write it down in the middle of a conversation. His notes were filled with fragments; little pieces of his experience that he wanted to grab onto. After seeing that I really felt his diligence and respected him even more than I already did. I really believe in his way of doing things. As his big brother, I was always impressed with Gord and was always so proud of him. Every time I got to hear an early recording of a record, I would say, “wow, you’ve done it again.” 

Is there a particular moment or episode in the docuseries that holds special significance for you, either because of its emotional weight or because it reveals something new about your brother or the band in general?

MIKE DOWNIE: Each episode is filled with so much heart. I love how the docuseries begins with the first episode. It’s almost like an art film. In the beginning, we go right into it with the band on the road together and then head right into Kingston. That was so important for people to understand our hometown and how it was this little nest where the guys got to grow and develop. Everything that they learned there was taken with them when they went across the country and around the world. I love the second episode for really trying to figure out the way that this band came to represent the Canadian experience for so many people. Everyone has got their own idea of what that was and this episode opened the door to it. The band came to represent this spirit of Canadian-ness and I love that. Lastly, each one of these episodes could be free standing even though they are meant to be watched sequentially. I love how you could watch one episode and feel satisfied from the story it tells. 

This docuseries was a wonderful way to celebrate Gord’s legacy with The Tragically Hip, but it wasn’t his only passion. As a founding member of the Gord Downie and Chanie Wenjack Fund, you are part of an organization whose mission aligns well with many initiatives currently underway in British Columbia. Are there any upcoming plans to further Gord’s legacy that might involve the band?

MIKE DOWNIE: My brother Gord and I, along with the Wenjack family, founded the Gord Downie and Chanie Wenjack Fund to continue the momentum that Secret Path created when it was released on the 50th anniversary of Chanie’s death in 2016. This happened just after Gord had completed the final tour with the band. The Downie Wenjack fund was created to carry on the momentum that was created by Secret Path, a media project in the form of an album, graphic novel, and animated film. We really want to bring this project called Secret Path Live to more places. We play the ten songs of Secret Path live on stage with Indigenous and non-Indigneous artists. We’ve done it in Toronto twice and we really want to bring it to Vancouver! 

The Downie Wenjack Fund was created as a way for non-Indigenous Canadians to engage in reconciliation. We recognized that people were going to need different ways to get into this and find their own path. This would be a way with Gord’s name on it, which I thought was really important because it was something he really believed in. A lot of Canadians had this trust in The Tragically Hip and in Gord. Gord dedicated his last couple of years of his life to reconciliation. It’s been very successful. Our legacy program is in over 7000 schools and we’re in over 100 different institutions with our legacy spaces program, which was made to get people involved. We wanted to help people find their way into reconciliation, free of intimidation. I think reconciliation provides a real goal or destination for a lot of individuals, families, and groups. The four remaining members of the band are very supportive of the fund and have a lot of belief in what we are doing. They will continue to be involved in various ways. 

I know Canada has a lot of work to do regarding reconciliation. As much as we failed Indigenous nations and families for many centuries as a country, I’d like to think that we are on a road towards at least trying to build some trust between Indigenous and non-Indigenonus people. Reconciliation gave Gord so much purpose in the last year or two of his life. It’s something both our family and the Wenjack family really believe in. I believe Canada missed a significant opportunity during Confederation in 1867 to incorporate a wide range of Indigenous worldviews into our national identity. Look no further than New Zealand, which I believe is 20 to 30 years ahead of us in embracing Māori culture to shape its national identity. I feel as Canadians we’ve really wrestled with that, this National identity thing. As Canadians, we have grappled with our national identity, often defining ourselves in contrast to being American or British. Many of the core beliefs, values, and lessons embedded in Indigenous cultures offer valuable insights for nation-building. 

The Tragically Hip’s docuseries: “The Tragically Hip: No Dress Rehearsal” is now streaming on Prime Video. Additionally, the band’s new coffee table book, “This Is Our Life,” released on October 1st is available for purchase now. 

This interview was edited for clarity. 

Top Photo Credit: Gord Hawkins 

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