Interview: The Star of Stratford Festival's TIMON OF ATHENS on the Play's Upcoming Cinematic Release

This Sunday, April 22nd, will mark the cinematic release of the 2017 Stratford Festival production of TIMON OF ATHENS - One of Shakespeare's later plays, for which productions are not nearly as common as some of Shakespeare's other stories. Directed for the stage by Stephen Ouimette, and directed for the screen by Barry Avrich, TIMON OF ATHENS is a story of a man who gives generously but does not pay close enough attention to his own debt. When the collectors come calling, Timon's friends do not show up for him like he did for them. This betrayal drastically changes his worldview and sends him into a tragic, reclusive life. Joseph Ziegler, who portrayed Timon in the production, was kind enough to chat with Broadway World about bringing this play to the big screen.

*This interview has been edited and condensed for clarity.*

Broadway World: Thanks so much for taking the time to chat. Broadway World is really excited about the cinematic release of TIMON OF ATHENS.

Joseph Ziegler: Thanks. I got to see the movie on Sunday here. They did a really good job putting it all together, but to watch your self in a play like that is a little bit difficult (laughs).

BWW: I know that you have acted in different mediums, but is it odd to see a stage production that you did, on film?

JZ: Well, it's interesting. I've been acting in front of a camera since the 1980's and I have seen myself on the screen a lot and I have never been able to sit through the whole thing and walk out at the end and say, "Wow. That was really good." (laughs) It just doesn't work that way because the task of playing a human being and making him a complete human being is pretty daunting. I think they did a really good job putting this together. They did this in pretty well one day. They had four or five cameras set up around the theatre and shot continuously from different angles. And to do that and then edit it the way they did so the story is easy to follow and you're focusing on the characters-it was really something. The language in TIMON OF ATHENS is also remarkable and that's of course why we keep doing these plays is because of the language.

BWW: And [the language] is different than other Shakespeare plays. It stands out in that way, as being a little different.

JZ: Yes it is different. It was probably written around-they're not sure-but around 1607 or 1608 which would be toward the end of Shakespeare's career. He was such an interesting writer. He kind of made up the rules as he went along. The only criterion he had for anything he wrote was that the audience had to love it. That's what he really cared about. He wanted people to come and see his plays. He had a lot to say, he did it well and if something didn't work, he'd change it and make it so the audience could follow it and understand it. TIMON OF ATHENS was written at the beginning of the 17th Century when everybody else-all the other great writers of the day, were writing revenge tragedies, and Shakespeare was done writing revenge tragedies. He was writing plays like this that have to do with being humane, that have to do with forgiveness, and how we treat each other as human beings. That's a fascinating thing when you think about what Shakespeare was writing at that time.

BWW: Yet another reason why Shakespeare is so great is the timelessness of the themes in his plays, and this one is not only timeless but timely. Some of the themes and the cautionary tale embedded in it are very relatable today. I know I sat there at intermission thinking about my own finances and my own monthly budget (laughs). And obviously, this performance was set in contemporary times, which made it really feel like this could happen now.

JZ: Yeah. And I think, in terms of what happens to Timon. I guess it's timeless in the sense that it could have happened five or six hundred years ago and it could also happen now. It's tough to figure out exactly...and I struggled with this when we were playing it...and I struggled with it on stage and the guy shows [Timon] the books and [he] thinks 'How could this possibly have happened? How could you have not kept me informed about this?' And there is text in the play, where the servant Flavius says 'What are you talking about? Every time I tried to talk to you about this, you told me to get out of here. Every time I tried to make you aware of what was happening, you didn't want to hear about it.' And I guess that's how we're supposed to understand it. He had been warned and he did not accept the warnings. He did not hear the warnings.

BWW: Another part of the play that I remember so clearly, and it goes back to what you were saying about the humanity of it all, is this notion that Timon puts forward that someone can't be truly cynical until they've had a fall from grace...and that character's fall from grace is so rapid and so extreme...Did it ever feel like you were playing two different people pre and post intermission?

JZ: It felt like the same guy the whole way through. What I tried to concentrate on was Timon being surrounded by people that he thought were his friends. He had been helping people and thought 'why wouldn't they help me', and that sort of realization, or that ongoing realization made it pretty easy to make it all one character. He starts out on top of the world, on top of everything and quickly things 'go to hell in a handcart' and he is left utterly alone. No one helps him. And me and Stephen Ouimette who directed it, we concentrated a lot on what that felt like to Timon. The fact is that he could never overcome his surprise at what had happened. It was always, always surprising to him, which was kind of an interesting thing.

BWW: So now you are several months removed from this production, and in rehearsals for the upcoming season at Stratford. Does it seem almost strange to be circling back and thinking about this one because it is hitting the big screen?

JZ: (Laughs) yeah!

BWW: And do you have any reflections on it or on the character that have come with removal from it or from the character?

JZ: Well as I say, when I saw it the other day, I'd say "oh geez, why'd you do that" [laughs]. I'd keep finding things I would correct, but you know, a performance like that changes night by night. It changes all the time. Of course when I saw it I saw things that I would have changed a little bit. But that's the great thing about theatre-that it happens on that day, for that reason, in front of that specific audience, whatever that is. It makes the theatre a really lively place to be because it should be happening right there, right in front of you. So if I did do it again, I might think 'I'm going to try it like this' but who knows what would happen. The language sometimes dictates to you how you're going to play it. You suddenly find yourself yelling at somebody and you didn't realize that that's what the text was doing and it's just sort of the way it works.

BWW: Actually, speaking to the magic in the room at that moment, and then bringing in a film crew to a very intimate space at the Tom Patterson Theatre. It's an intimate, theatre-in-the- round atmosphere. What did that day feel like when they were filming? Were you constantly aware of the cameras? Did they do a good job of staying out of your way?

JZ: They did a good job. I mean, yeah, everybody knew it was being filmed and people were pretty nervous and stuff like that, but we had been working on the play since March and it was September when the cameras came in. You can do these plays more successfully as an actor if you completely immerse yourself in the play and try to lose yourself. You can't always do that, that's not really possible, but in so far as it is possible, you're looking at the person that you're talking to and you're trying to convince them that what they're saying is horse $%&# or whatever the task may be. You lose yourself for a minute while you're talking to that person. That's a good thing, that's the way acting works...but it doesn't happen all the time, so all of the sudden, somebody will do something different and you'll say 'What are you doing...oh!" and then off you go again! But that's what live theatre is all about I guess!

BWW: Absolutely. I would imagine with it being theatre in the round, things would look different for people on one side of the house vs. the other...I would imagine that the filmmakers tried to capture some of those key moments so that maybe the audience in the movie theatre might get the best of all worlds or both worlds.

JZ: I think so, and I think they really did a good job. I don't know how many cameras there were there but they were all around the stage so somebody was shooting your back, your side, and your front, whatever-throughout the whole play. And then they just edited it together, picking the best shots-some that were close-ups, some that were farther back. It was amazing how they did it. I just couldn't believe it. Usually to shoot something like that...well if you were doing a movie, it would take weeks to shoot it, and they did this pretty much in one day. We did another day for pickups, but yeah, it was pretty impressive I have to say.

BWW: This is probably one of the lesser known, certainly one of the less frequently performed Shakespeare plays. How does it feel for you to know that your production will probably be the most accessible one for people discovering it for the first time?

JZ: Yeah, that's a great thing. I'm not sure why it's a lesser known play. I guess there are some elements that are dramatically less satisfactory than KING LEAR or ROMEO AND JULIET...which have this horrible ending where everybody dies. You know it's over. This play doesn't have the same satisfying kind of ending to it in a way, but it's still really compelling if you are right in the story. I also think the language is more complex than in some of his other plays. I don't mean complex as in hard to follow, but complex in that he's got a lot he wants to talk about. There's a lot of things that Shakespeare must have wanted to say about what the world was like or how the world felt to him at that point. He puts it all in this play.

BWW: I guess this is the last play that was filmed at the former incarnation of the Tom Patterson Theatre-which is guess is another reason that it so great that it is captured for all time. Did that cross your mind the day it was being filmed?

JZ: Sure! The first time I acted in the Tom Patterson Theatre, it wasn't called the Tom Patterson Theatre. It was just called the 'third stage' and that was in 1983. So I had been acting off and on in that place for over 30 years. I have a lot of memories about that place. Memories of people that I acted with, people I was directed by, and wonderful plays that I got to be in. So yeah, we couldn't help but be aware that that was sort of the end of the road for the old Tom Patterson Theatre. I don't know if you've seen any of the images for the new Tom Patterson Theatre, but it's going to be pretty spectacular, and more audience friendly. The Tom Patterson Theatre was originally more like a sports arena, so that's not ideal for an audience. They did a really good job making that building work as a theatre, but a building that is made from the ground up to put on plays is always better, I think. So we're pretty excited about what's going to happen with it.

BWW: Lastly, what do you think audiences in the cinema or watching on DVD who have never seen this play, or have never been to the Stratford Festival before, will take away from this?

JZ: Well I hope they'll see what a great story it is. That's the big thing. It's an incredible, and very interesting and complex story of a man and the people that he lived with. It's an amazing story and it's about how we deal with each other. How are we human to each other? But it's very dramatic, as you know. There is so much in it-how our actions will affect another person, what that means to interact with somebody. What I hope people take away from it is "Oh Shakespeare is a little bit easier to understand than I thought it was!" That's what we were trying to do with the play all the time was make it accessible so that the audience would follow it. That's the only thing that matters really, is that people can understand it.

TIMON OF ATHENS comes to Cineplex Theatres Worldwide on April 22nd.

Photo Credit: Cylla von Tiedemann

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