Interview: Jason Graae of PERFECT HERMANY at 42nd Street Moon Celebrates the Legacy of His Dear Friend Jerry Herman

San Francisco's revered 42nd Street Moon kicks off its 2021 "Moonbeams" season with Jason Graae in Perfect Hermany, a tribute to the late, great Jerry Herman, writer of such classic musicals as Hello, Dolly!, Mame and La Cage Aux Folles. The title Perfect Hermany is an unusually apt one as Graae is the perfect interpreter of Herman's work, having starred in a much-lauded production Herman's The Grand Tour in LA and toured for years with Herman in Hello, Jerry!, a revue of Herman's work. Perfect Hermany is available for streaming on Fridays, Saturdays and Sundays through May 2, 2021. For additional information and to purchase tickets, visit 42ndStreetMoon.org.

Among his many credits, Graae has appeared on Broadway numerous times, toured extensively as The Wizard in Wicked, performed with major symphonies across the country, recorded dozens of musical theater albums and has enjoyed a long association with 42nd Street Moon. He is known for the improbable combination of his antic, go-for-broke comedic style and the impeccable musicianship of his soaring tenor. He is the type of performer who can make you bust a gut one moment and then melt your heart the next.

I caught up with Graae last week from his home base in LA soon after he had completed filming Perfect Hermany. We talked about his long association with both Herman and 42nd Street Moon, his favorite Herman songs, a couple of key roles that somehow got away from him and a few he still hopes to have a go at. Graae is always a blast to talk to. It seems the guy is incapable of not being funny, but he is also thoughtful and kind, and sort of a walking treasure trove of theatrical lore. The following conversation has been condensed and edited for clarity.

It seems like the world turned upside down since we last talked after Scrooge in Love at Moon in December 2019. So how has your "year of Covid" been?

It's been a roller coaster. There've been moments that I could just not be happier and more content not to have to pack a suitcase and go to LAX and fly places and do all that. And then there's times where if I stay in my house one more day, I'm gonna like explode.

I got to do the Moon gala at the end of February. I drove up to San Francisco and it was fun to take a road trip and be in San Francisco. I was kind of dreading going there because I thought it was going to be like visiting a sick friend or something, but it was active, people were out and eating outside at that point. And we got to perform onstage at the Gateway, so all of that was really, really fun. But mostly everything's been in my living room, with my phone and video camera and my ring light, no audience response, and I don't think I can take it any longer! [laughs]

Yeah, I keep wondering how performers are dealing with having no audience reaction to play off.

I'm not gonna lie, it's hard for everybody. Because theater is a live experience that we all enjoy in the moment - the audience, the actors, the musicians, the techies. Everybody's in the moment doing it together, and then it's gone. And now we don't have that. Everything we're doing is filmed and virtual, and the silence is just deafening after the laugh lines. [pauses] I do hear laughter in my head though - either that or I'm starting to go crazy. [laughs]

It seems like a no-brainer for you to do Perfect Hermany, given your close connection to Jerry Herman over the years. How did you go about putting the show together?

I became part of Jerry's life so much around 2000. I had so many different experiences with him and did so many shows and traveled the country with him. I had repertoire and I had stories and I loved him, and I thought, "Well, I have an embarrassment of riches here, and I can't let that pass."

So I called [pianist] John Boswell. I'd never worked with him before, but I'd just seen him do a club act at the Gardenia. I'd admired him for so long, and I just thought, "I'm gonna go right to the top here in LA." And so I called John, and he was very excited about it, and then my friend Lee Tannen directed it. Lee and I met in New York years ago, doing a show called Just So. He was like the ad guy for this show that was a flop, but he's a writer and a director and we share kind of a twisted sense of humor, so I thought he'd be perfect. We'd never worked together in that capacity, so we just started tossing around ideas. It was really challenging to narrow it down to a 70-75 minute show because so many of his songs are so freaking great, you know? So that's how we began.

This is the first time I've done the show since Jerry passed away, so it's got a new meaning to it and it's very moving. I was weepy a lot when we were filming this a couple weeks ago. It was all different, referring to Jerry in the past tense, and it just meant so much to sing the songs.

You also sang at his memorial service in New York last year and I've always wondered what that experience is like as a performer. I mean, you're surrounded by every star on Broadway, and you go out there to do your one number and pay tribute to this person who was a dear friend of yours. It's got to be a bit of an emotional roller coaster, right?

It was that. It was exactly an emotional roller coaster. I was backstage and I was screaming and cheering for people, I was laughing uproariously, and I was sobbing. I was all over the map. I was thrilled to be in the company I was in - Bernadette Peters and Betty Buckley and all these incredible people. And then people that I've worked with a lot, like Ron Raines and Klea Blackhurst and Debbie Gravitte. It was a great, great lineup and I felt in awe of everybody I was around. I was just so proud and grateful to be there. I felt like "Okay, you'd better step up for Jerry."

And they kind of chose the song for me. Jerry's partner actually requested it. I had wanted to do something sweet and beautiful and charming, something from The Grand Tour like "Mrs. Jakobovsky" or "I Belong Here." And Jerry's partner said, "You know, Jason, Jerry would really, really want you to sing 'You I Like.'" And I thought, "Omigod, it's so in-your-face." And he said, "But we need it, please do it." And so I said, "Alright, you asked for it!" [laughs]

And you're somebody who can pull off that kind of razzmatazz song, even at a memorial service.

And well, it needed it. But I was so afraid it was going to be so schticky for a beautiful memorial service. But it really was a concert of Jerry's greatest work, so it was great to see so many different styles represented. So there I was - representing the Borscht Belt. [laughs]

How would you describe the real Jerry Herman? His shows tend to be so life-affirming and upbeat. Was he like that in real life, or was he more complicated than that?

He was complicated, but oh, he was very much like that in life. He was so optimistic and so generous - omigod, so generous! Those are the first two things I would say about him.

As far as singing his material, you know so many of these places I performed, he was sitting on stage watching me. The first time that happened I, you know, just about went to the bathroom onstage. But he had such a nurturing way about him, and he genuinely seemed to love what you brought to his material. He loved your fresh take on his songs.

He would have some very specific notes, like "Okay, on this note you really need to hold it the full three beats." Probably the second time I did "You I Like" and it started getting schtickier, after the show he said, "Jason, you can do anything you want to my song. But - just get through one chorus so the audience knows how the thing goes. Then you can do whatever you want to it." [laughs] Which I loved!

This might be impossible to answer, but out of the hundreds of songs he wrote, which one reminds you the most of him? What's the one you hear and think, "Yeah, now that was Jerry."?

[responds instantly] "I'll Be Here Tomorrow" from The Grand Tour. When we performed the Hello, Jerry! show that I did with him around the country, with Paige O'Hara and Karen Morrow, and Don Pippin as musical director, Jerry would come out and Michael Kerker from ASCAP would interview him. Then he would sing and play "Mame" and it was like a rock concert. And at the end of the show, he would play for each of us a song, for Karen "If He Walked into My Life," for me "Before the Parade Passes By" and for Paige "Where in the World is My Prince?" I think. Anyway, after we did the finale, he would come back out in certain cities and sing and play "I'll Be Here Tomorrow."

And you know, he had HIV, he was living with that since the 80's, and when I first worked with him, his health was not good at all. The very first concert we did in St. George, Utah he was very sick and frail, and I thought, "Oh god, at least I got to do this with him; I've had this one great experience with him." And he made a miraculous recovery, because I think he was chanting that song - "I'll be here tomorrow, alive and well and thriving. I'll be here tomorrow, it's simply called surviving." And he was a survivor of the utmost.

Herman had such an interesting career. He had huge Broadway hits, but also a number of major flops, albeit with terrific scores, like Dear World and The Grand Tour. Mack and Mabel is probably his best-known flop show, which I think you did at Lincoln Center?

Yeah, in concert, just the music.

It seems like ever since the day Mack and Mabel closed back in 1974 there have been attempts to revise it and maybe bring it back to Broadway, but they always seem to come to naught. Do you know what it is about that show that just doesn't quite work?

I think the tone of the book is what needs to change. I don't know this first-hand, but rumor has it that the estate of Michael Stewart, who wrote the book, they're very protective of his words, shall we say.

There was a production of it that Jerry was really excited about in the UK, and I think it was a hit [originating at the Watermill Theatre in Newbury before touring England]. But then they brought it to the West End and it was not a hit. John Doyle directed it and found a way to kind of shake things up and put a new stamp on it while also honoring the book that they could not change. So that seemed to be a step in the right direction, but yeah, it's one of those shows, like Chess and Merrily We Roll Along. I mean these scores are incredible and all three you just want to listen to the album on a loop, but the books just don't totally gel.

I'm the kind of musical theater nerd who loves nothing more than a really obscure showtune. What is your own personal favorite song of Jerry's that most folks probably have never heard?

Oh, gosh... "To Be Alone with You" from Ben Franklin in Paris. I think Michael Feinstein sings it on Youtube somewhere, and it's just a beautiful ballad.

Let's see... I think a lot of people know Milk and Honey, but it's got a couple really beautiful songs in it. I sing one in the show, "There's No Reason in the World" and I think I did screw up the lyrics in the take that they used. [laughs] So sue me! Luckily, it's virtual so no one can throw anything at me.

And then there's some songs from The Grand Tour that I love. I think "Mrs. Jacobowsky" is just beautifully constructed. It's funny, but it's really moving, like a two-act play going on in that song, about him [Jacobowsky] fantasizing about what it would be like to be married to Marianne who's Catholic and he's Jewish. It's funny and challenging, and so sentimental and beautiful. It's one of my favorites to perform.

You have quite an established history with 42nd Street Moon. Do you have any dream shows that you're just dying to do, that you wish Daren and Daniel [Moon's Co-Executive Directors] would program just so they could cast you in the lead role?

[laughs and pauses] Uh....

You know - just between us.

Yeah, just you, me and the lamppost. Well, I'd love to do The Grand Tour again. I think it tried out in San Francisco before it went to Broadway. It didn't run very long and then went out on a tour, because I saw it in Chicago after it closed on Broadway. So, yeah, I would like another crack at The Grand Tour. I don't think he has to be 30; I think he could be 95 like I am now. [laughs]

I Do! I Do! would be really fun to do, which I think is an adorable show with a great score. I haven't seen it really since the 80's. I don't know that it's my favorite show, but I love the score and I'd love to get to do it. And - I think he grows as old as I am and I think I could pull off being 18 [at the beginning], if the lights are low.

And - the role that I really wanted to play all my life and I didn't and unfortunately the Gateway's just not a large enough theater for me to do it, would be How to Succeed in Business Without Really Trying.

That's a show I have a lot of affection for, and I've never seen a truly great production of it. Robert Morse's performance in the original is one that I really wish I could travel back in time to see.

Yeah. Oh, he was a loose cannon in the movie. I loved him. I think the movie's so great.

And you know I got offered the standby with Matthew Broderick on Broadway. I went in auditioning for Bud Frump, and that's really what I wanted to play. I sang The Stepsisters Lament but I rewrote the lyrics, it was kinda brilliant I think, just between you and me [laughs] - and then I had like three callbacks. I had to dance, and it was hilarious. I mean [director] Des McAnuff said, "Jason, stop dancing. Just stop, OK?!" and so I just went and sat on the side. Then he pulled me out into the hallway and said, "OK, here's my offer to you. We'd love to offer you to understudy Finch, and you'll have to be in the chorus in San Diego, but then when it comes to Broadway, you can just be the standby." And I said, "Well, I have an idea." [laughs] And he said [in a very disdainful tone], "Oh, really? What's your idea?" And I said, "Why don't you cast me as Frump and as the cover to Finch? Then we're talking!"

I really wanted to play Frump. I mean, I knew Matthew Broderick was going be playing Finch and he was going to be great and I really had no interest in being that guy that like when Matthew Broderick was out sick, people walk out of the theater when they announce "The role usually played by Matthew Broderick will be played by..." and you hear them moan and get up and leave. My ego's just too fragile for that, like I just don't have that edge, you know? But - I said that to Des, and he just laughed and kind shook his head, like I'm gonna help him recast the show?!

Too bad we never got to see your Bud Frump because I can totally see you killing in that role.

I thought I'd be really funny, but I was the only one in the room that apparently thought so. [laughs] But I do love that show.

Now, I've got my eye on playing Amos in Chicago, because I've tasted the Wicked thing where you come out for 25 minutes and that's your whole show. I really like the idea of Amos just popping out, singing a big incredible song, Mr. Cellophane, which is just one of my favorite songs of all time, and then going backstage and sitting on my ass. I really like that idea!

I have one last question that's kind of out of left field, about that cover photo from your Charles Strouse album where you were basically naked, with a just a top hat strategically placed over your nether regions. You looked great, by the way, but let's just say that kind of image is not the norm for an album of vintage showtunes. So how did that come about? Did you get any pushback from the label?

It was the producer's idea to do that! They ran it by me and I'm so easy, I was like "Sure!" Well, first of all we had to look everywhere for a huge top hat, you know one that was large enough. [laughs] But yeah - the producer, Bruce Kimmel at Varèse Sarabande said, "Jason, so here's an idea. They're not going to know who the hell you are in Kansas City, Missouri. You want to sell more albums, so what do you think about this: dropping trou and calling the album 'You're Never Fully Dressed Without a Smile'?" We had already picked the songs and so he was looking through the song list and got the idea, like "Wouldn't this be eye-catching?" And I was like "Sure, why not?!"

So that's how difficult I am to drop trou. You can get me to drop trou anywhere. Well, you used to - the really interesting thing is I've seen a few video clips [of Perfect Hermany] and I have put on the "Covid 5" as they lovingly refer to it. I've been running 4 days a week, I work out, but I still... In "Tap Your Troubles Away" I always take my jacket off, and I always look fit, and I make a really big deal about this tap dance that I'm about to do - and I'm so sorry I took my jacket off, that's all I'm gonna say. [laughs] I think I look like Pappy Yokum [from L'il Abner]. I guess that probably should be my next role at 42nd Street Moon! [laughs]

Well, you know they always say the camera adds 5 to 10 pounds.

Yeah, let's just go with that!

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