Interview: Douglas Gresham Talks C.S. Lewis' THE HORSE AND HIS BOY

Trumpets ("The Bluebird of Happiness," "Joseph the Dreamer") premieres its latest full-length play "The Horse and His Boy," which is based on "Chronicles of Narnia's" fifth fantasy novel of the same name by British novelist C.S. Lewis, on Friday, November 6, at Meralco Theatre in Manila, Philippines.

"The Horse and His Boy," dedicated to C.S. Lewis' adopted sons: the then nine-year-old Douglas Gresham and his brother, David, is a fitting follow-up to Trumpets' previous musical adaptation of C.S. Lewis' "The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe," which is the first book from the classic fantasy series.

BroadwayWorld.com recently had the rare opportunity to interview Douglas Gresham, now 69, who has become an accomplished American-British stage and voice-over actor, biographer, executive record producer, and co-producer of the film adaptations of "The Chronicles of Narnia."

"The Horse and His Boy" tells the tale of an orphan boy, Shasta, and a talking horse, Bree, as they journey towards freedom from oppression and slavery. They fly from a foreign land to Narnia, the place Bree calls home, where Shasta hopes to find who he is and where he truly belongs. Along the way, Shasta and Bree are joined by a young noblewoman, Aravis, and a talking mare, Hwin, who both share their desire for freedom.

Do you feel like Shasta since your stepdad dedicated "The Horse and His Boy" to you and David?

I am not sure the dedication had anything to do with it. I have always felt like Shasta, or perhaps more accurately an amalgamation of Prince Cor and his Brother Prince Corin. "The Horse and His Boy" was written in 1949-50 or thereabouts I think, and it demonstrates one of, to me anyway, Jack's [C.S. Lewis' nickname] most extraordinary abilities. He seemed able to draw pretty accurate character sketches of people whom he had not as yet actually met. For example, I knew Edmund and Eustace before I met them in "Narnia." And the combination of Cor and Corin could well have been a direct depiction of me at the age of about 12. I rode horses delightedly, was a boxer and gymnast, climbed in and out of houses (and schools) as often by the window as by doors, sometimes several floors up, and so on. I also seem to have had most of the faults and failings of both of those boys. All that I lacked I suppose was their combined heroism. Though I did develop an early allergy to bullies and tended to defend the smaller kids and so forth. I suppose, that now I come to think of it, I still feel like Shasta. I often find myself riding along that cliff side path in the fog, the only thing between me and the endless fall being Aslan walking on the air beside me.

In your life's journey, who was your Breehy-hinny-brinny-hoohy-hah?

The answer to that depends on in what sense you are asking the question. Do you mean who was my human mentor, or who was my best and most caring equine friend? In the first case, obviously, Jack himself was my teacher and my friend, I learned more from him (and am still learning from him) than from anyone else in my Earthly life. He was gentle and persistent in teaching me how to survive in both this world and the next, and how to persist doggedly to achieve the needed goals. Many folks have learned so much from Jack though his writings, I learned from him in conversation and from living with him. Living with Jack was an education in itself, and that experience has left me with a much richer and deeper understanding of his writings than I would otherwise ever have achieved. I speak, read and write the same language as that which Jack both spoke and wrote. I am the last man alive who lived with Jack and learned at his table.

On the other hand, my best and most wonderful equine friend was a huge Irish half-bred mare called Rosie. She was placid for the most part and seemed to have a great sense of humour. I remember one cold winter's day when I was riding her down a towpath beside a river in Ireland (where I lived at the time), a man coming the other way on foot, had with him, unrestrained and running free, a large, ugly, mixed breed dog. This stupid animal decided that he owned the right of way on the towpath and baring his wicked looking teeth, took up a position barring the path and roaring his guttural bark at Rosie and I. He looked so silly, large as he was, trying to face down this huge horse. I let the reins go completely slack and trusted Rosie to do what she willed. She and I understood each other. Rosie simply kept on plodding calmly towards the dog and his owner who seemed to be in no mind to control his pet. Rosie and I drew nearer and nearer to the dog and the man stood behind him with a smug smile on his face. Without wavering one inch to one side or the other, Rosie just kept moving at the same calm pace till at last the dog, still barking furiously found himself face to face with a dilemma. Whether to move aside or be slowly trampled by the enormous creature by now looming over him. He moved to the right and stood on the very bank of the river barking furious all the while as Rosie stepped on gently and slowly past him, the dog's owner moved aside too, the other way into the tall weeds growing up the bank. As Rosie came along side the dog she gave an odd little hop of her rump and her offside hoof (the size of a small dinner plate) shot out with blinding speed and lifted the dog into the air and shot him about ten feet out into the freezing cold river. The crowd of onlookers also walking that stretch of the river both laughed and applauded and Rosie and I walked placidly on as the man retrieved his sopping wet dog and hurried away.

Whenever I was down and depressed or sad (and at Rathvinden Ministries which we were running at the time this was not uncommon) I would often wander out into the paddock to think and to pray and Rosie would amble over to me and lay her great head gently on my shoulder, her velvety nose gently rubbing my cheek. It was many years ago and she is long dead, but I can still feel her affection. She taught me a lot about myself.

What made you choose to entrust the stage adaptation of "The Horse and His Boy" to Trumpets, apart from it being a Christian theater group, which earlier produced a stage adaptation of "The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe"?

I think you have answered your own question. To start with there is no "apart" from being a Christian Theatre Group, and not all cast and crew members of Trumpets are Christians. But the fact that they produced one of, if not the, most beautiful and moving versions of "The Lion, The Witch and The Wardrobe" ever to grace stage, would surely be reason enough in itself. Such design, such a show, such music, such a cast, such a crew! And Jesus too! What's not to trust?

What is Bree telling Shasta exactly about swinging unexpectedly to the left or to the right when fighting in a battle? Is this similar to being resilient like bamboos?

No, I don't think so at all. This would be to leap aside from a lance or a sabre swinging at one's rider's head. In a cavalry battle, a good destrier or war-horse is trained to fight just as much as his rider is. The longevity (or lack thereof) of a cavalryman is as much his horse's doing as his own. The horse must know when to leap aside from a blow or even an arrow, and when to rear and strike with his forefeet, that crushing downward blow with the full weight of the horse behind it, or pirouette to keep his rider's flanks safe and to keep his sabre towards the direst threat. To lash out with his hind feet at exactly the right split second-- and not gently as Rosie did with her canine tormentor -- but with a killing blow. Every movement of the horse is transmitted to the rider's brain through the pressure changes on his seat, which encompasses his legs from the soles of his feet to the waist, and the sudden movements of his lower body while he fights with his upper body and the horse fights beneath him. The rider and horse become one unit in battle. They must know, trust and respect each other completely, they must become two parts of one being, liquid in its movements and totally in tune with each other mentally. Jack loved horses, and to him one of the most horrible parts of his experiences in the first world war was the slaughter in the battle of hundreds of thousands of innocent horses. Bamboo breaks and grows again--horses die.

What is it in Jack that made him honorable apart from being a second father to you in a secular perspective and not necessarily in a Christian point of view?

This question is impossible to answer because there is no "secular view" nor any "apart" from Jack being my stepfather. What made him honourable was his Christianity. Outside of Christianity there is no real honour; oh, there is pride, savage demeaning pride, but no real honour. Honour demands love and love is best defined as "Your benefit at my expense". Honour is the enactment of that principle. Honour is something we should value very highly but never take pride in. Pride kills honour. The secularist has neither the knowledge nor the intellectual capacity to begin to comprehend this. For without Jesus and an understanding of what He did and why He did, it there can be no understanding of Honour.

But Jack never tried, and indeed was careful not to try, to usurp the place of my father in our relationship. He became instead (and it is very difficult to do successfully) a very good stepfather. One of our friends once suggested that I should change my name from Gresham to Lewis and I asked Jack what he thought. His reply was simple and yet profound. He said that he didn't think it would be a good idea because the Bible tells us to "honour our father and our mother" (the word "honour" here is used in a very different sense from that in which I have used it above, here, as in the language of King James's day it was used and still is in some cases, to mean to admit to and accept, as we "honour" debt or "honour" a cheque, and means to admit that the debt is ours and pay it or that the cheque is ours and pay that. We have to admit to who our father is and who our mother is and not make any secret of our blood parentage) and to change my name would be to cease to "honour" my father. He was right!

You were very hands-on with anything concerning "Narnia"--its films, merchandise, et. al--how hands on were you with this stage adaption of "The Horse and His Boy"?

I still am. [Playwright] Luna Griño Inocian, and indeed Trumpets, in general, and I have built a bond of trust over the years that we have known each other and worked together now and then. I always feel honoured to be even a small part of any of Trumpets productions. Luna sends her scripts to me and I make comments and sometimes ask for changes or suggest changes. This is a part of my everyday life with scripts that come in from all over the world but in Luna's case the changes and suggestions are always minimal. I evaluate the script and stay in touch with Luna throughout the procedure of getting things up and running. I usually get to see and comment on the advertising materials too and again Trumpets are very good at that kind of thing. So far Trumpets have been free of any serious glitches. So albeit, from a long way away, I guess I am as hands on as I need to be.

Do you foresee this stage production of "The Horse and His Boy" traveling beyond the Philippines?

I really don't know. I very much wanted (and still want) their musical production of "The Lion, the Witch and the Wardrobe" to travel across the world but have been unable to bring this about--so far. But in any case I will have to see the show before even thinking about that kind of question.

Are you and Walden Media still on track to produce the movie adaptation of "the Horse and His Boy"?

No, Walden Media no longer have anything to do with the production of any future Narnian films. We and Walden parted company some time ago. Actually I think that Walden is no longer a production company, but more a film financing company.

Was the stage adaptation of "The Horse and His Boy" in 1990 the first of its several media adaptations, including a radio dramatization in 2003?

Possibly. I was not deeply involved in such matters at that time as I was busy raising children and running a large dairy farm and other businesses in Tasmania.

"The Horse and His Boy" plays Meralco Theatre, Meralco Bldg., Ortigas Ave., Meralco Center, Pasig City from Friday, November 6, to Sunday, November 22.

For tickets (P836-P2,090), call TicketWorld at (632)891-9999 or visit ticketworld.com.ph.

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