Interview: MICHELLE AZAR of ALL THINGS EQUAL: RUTH BADER GINSBURG at HOBBY CENTER

Michelle Azar is coming to the HOBBY CENTER’s Zilkha Hall to play judicial icon Ruth Bader Ginsburg in ALL THINGS EQUAL: THE LIFE AND TRIALS OF RUTH BADER GINSBURG. The show will run on September 5th and 6th for a one-weekend-only stint. It’s a chance to see an intimate portrait of the Supreme Court Justice and learn more about her private life. Broadway World writer Brett Cullum got a chance to talk to Michelle about “The Notorious RBG” and what this play has to say to the world now. 

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Brett Cullum: First up, I wanted to find out. How did you end up in this one-woman show? 

Michelle Azar: When we grace the stage in Houston, it will be officially two years. So yeah, right there, at the end of the pandemic when nobody thought they were gonna work again, and certainly not in collaboration with other people. My manager called me and said, “I have a hunch.” She had seen the notice go out for a Ruth Bader Ginsburg solo show.

I said, “Of course! Who am I to say no? And I love doing solo work.” I got obsessed with studying Ruth, and there were four auditions. With each one, I got more and more excited. I read every single book I could, and I booked it. 

I had a Zoom call back, and Rupert Holmes (the author) was there. Our director,  Laley Lippard, and I did a lot of things moving back and forth. Not being in the room was interesting! 

That is how it started. My manager, Alison Kayla, just had a hunch. 

Brett Cullum: Well, tell me about how you researched her. How did you go about that?

Michelle Azar: One of my favorite books was Conversations with RBG: Ruth Bader Ginsburg on Life, Love, Liberty, and Law by Jeffrey Rosen. My husband was so cute. He bought me every book on Amazon, but then I watched the NOTORIOUS RBG documentary many times.

I usually like to work things inside out, let's say as an actor, but with somebody that's so much in the Zeitgeist. You want to do due diligence on the outside. So, I'm a yoga teacher and a dancer at heart. I was really interested in what is this physical part of her like when her neck started moving to the left when she started chemotherapy. 

For me, the moment of beginning to integrate the outside, the external bodily functions, and then the accent, and then putting on the glasses. So I did a lot of that outside work because who am I to say that I could speak of what Ruth is talking about? 

It's one thing to learn lines. But it's another thing to imagine that you're an expert at something and that you have the confidence the way Ruth did, and she says she was very nervous. One of my favorite quotes. She said, “I was very nervous to go in front of the Supreme Court, but what I realized was that I had a captive audience.” 

She loved the idea that she was a teacher. That was when I realized that I could do it.

She pivoted, listened, read the room, and said, “The men of the courts are not quite understanding what we're talking about. What about if we flip it on its head?” 

Thank God for her husband, who said, “I'm not going to be daunted by this woman with a great brain!"

People are like, “How do you keep doing it? It's like so many words, 90 min for two years!” I say it is because you can never learn enough. You could never get tired of it! All that feeds into my performance.

Brett Cullum: Now you mentioned Rupert Holmes, the writer of this.

Michelle Azar (suddenly singing): “If you like Pina Coladas! And getting caught in the rain!” That's the big claim to fame for Rupert. He wrote that song!  

But Rupert Holmes is also known for creating the Tony Award-Winning MYSTERY OF EDWIN DROOD. He did CURTAINS with Kander & Ebb! He's a novelist, and he does film songs and scores! He's just one of those men who does everything and does it all well.  

Brett Cullum: My mind is blown. That's great! From recording a hit about an unhappy couple to SAY GOODNIGHT GRACIE and adaptations of Grisham novels. But I still think about that PINA COLADA song, and can quote every lyric.  

Michelle Azar: I think that's also why this play is very exciting, that people can see it a bunch of times and not get bored. It's not just me on stage but because there's a musicality to it. There's a movement to it. He is a musician, writer, composer, and all-around an incredible, incredible, generous man.

Brett Cullum: Ruth Bader Ginsburg is, I think, the only Supreme Court justice to have her own action figure. What do you think makes this woman so special? She's surrounded by history, Supreme Court Justices, and all these other people. But there's something about Ruth Bader Ginsburg that just clicks with the Zeitgeist, the pop culture.

Michelle Azar: Correct. I think she saw the benefit of acknowledging a changing organism. I was thinking this morning so much about what happens when we deny that change is real. What did they say? That you can't have truth without Ruth. 

I remember somebody saying to her, “Aren't you offended that you've been now dubbed the notorious RBG.” She's like, “I don't understand what the offense would be!” There's a shift. And people are saying, this woman is in her eighties, and we're gonna shift. And she allowed for that adaptation. 

She was consistent. She was transparent.

She said. “I'm sorry!” when she made a mistake. And we use that in the play. We really talk about it. “I'm sorry that some of you are angry that I didn't step down.”

She shows that there was dignity. 

There's a beautiful phrase in Hebrew that is translated as “It's not out there.” It's all right here. And I think people felt that she was accessible and cared about each and every one of them because she did.

Brett Cullum: But what do you think surprised you the most about her life?

Michelle Azar: One thing that surprised me is that as a young mom. When I was a young mom, I could barely get out of bed. I could barely function other than just changing a diaper and tossing food in my baby's face. She was getting her Harvard degree, taking care of another child, Jane, who was four, as well as her husband Marty, who had testicular cancer, so that blew my mind that fortitude.

Brett Cullum: Michelle, when I see your headshots or photos of you, You look nothing like Ruth Ginsburg, but in the production shots I've seen from the play. I'm amazed. How do you do that physical transformation into her?

Michelle Azar: Well, you'll have to come to the show and see.

Brett Cullum: You know, it's interesting. I have a wild connection to Ruth. I went to school with the Justice appointed in her chair, Amy Coney Barrett. We went to college together.

Michelle Azar: Yeah, and where?

Brett Cullum: Rhodes College in Memphis, Tennessee. And it's odd to think of how starkly these two women contrast and where the court is today versus when she was there. 

Michelle Azar: Ask her to come to see the play so we could talk to her.

Brett Cullum: I can try.

Michelle Azar: I really want to talk to Amy. 

Brett Cullum: It's a stark contrast. 

Michelle Azar: (emphasizing each word) It's a stark contrast.

I'm just thinking of abortion, let's say reproductive rights overall. I can't imagine. I understand it from the male point of view. Let's keep everybody beholden to us. Let's not allow people to self-actualize and make decisions for themselves. Fine.

But from a female point of view? I just come up short each time.

Brett Cullum: It's wild to think about what we're wrestling with now versus all of the things that Ruth made us go forward with.

What do you hope that this show says to audiences now? This is where we are. We're not in Ruth’s court anymore.

Michelle Azar: That's correct. Thank you. You're right. And I think that is why I want people to come. Our director said on day one of rehearsal, “What if our goal is to make every single person who leaves the theater say I'm not a celebrity. I'm not a social influencer. I haven't gone to Harvard. But I can make a difference."

You know that. That was what Ruth wanted to do. She wanted to make life better for someone else. 

I want people to come so they can say, “I want to go back to graduate school, or I want to study more about something to investigate my limitations within something. I want every child to know that they, too, can make a difference. I want every adult to know that by cutting off somebody who doesn't think or look like you, you're cutting off a part of your own experience. You're cutting off a part of what could be great.

Brett Cullum: Well, thank you so much. I could talk Ruth Bader Ginsburg for hours! 

Michelle Azar: I know me too! Clearly, thanks for having me.

ALL THINGS BEING EQUAL: THE LIFE AND TRIALS OF RUTH BADER GINSBURG is at the Hobby Center for the Performing Arts on September 5th and 6th. Both shows start at 7:30 pm. The performance will be in Zilkha Hall, the smaller, more intimate venue. The play is only 90 minutes without any intermission. 

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