Interview: Derek Charles Livingston, The Newest Artistic Director At STAGES Houston
Derek Charles Livingston has taken over this year as artistic director for STAGES HOUSTON. He was preceded by Ken Mclaughlin, who stepped down after 25 seasons.
Derek Charles Livingston has taken over this year as artistic director for STAGES HOUSTON. He was preceded by Kenn Mclaughlin, who stepped down after 25 seasons. Most recently, Derek was the director of new play development at the Utah Shakespeare Festival. Derek also previously served as the managing artistic director of the Celebration Theatre in Los Angeles, and he has worked extensively as an actor and in new play development! BROADWAY WORLD would like to welcome him to Houston formally! Writer Brett Cullum got to talk with Derek about his future at STAGES.
Brett Culum: Welcome to HOUSTON, Derek Charles Livingston! We’re so excited to have you here. You are going to be such a treasure here in HTown!
Derek Charles Livingston: Well, thank you so much. You know, it's so exciting to be here and to be in such a diverse city and a city with such an active theater community and an active African American community and Latin / Latinx community and all communities, and that really feeds me personally as an artist, so thank you for the welcome to Houston. I'm really happy to be here.
Brett Cullum: It really is a diverse city. It's amazing, and so is the theater that goes on. And you mentioned specific groups. And oh, my gosh! So much happening theatrically. But just quickly, how did you personally end up in the theater? When did you discover that it was something that you wanted to do?
Derek Charles Livingston: There probably wasn't a time that I didn't want to do theater, except for when I grew up in a very working class and disenfranchised black and brown neighborhood where in those kinds of schools, we just didn’t have active arts programs. I mean, they kind of exist. Every school had a band, but no strong arts program existed. It always seemed like a dream or something on the periphery of what was possible.
I spent my own money, my allowance, money, babysitting money, and lawn mowing money that I saved up, and I would go see the bus and truck tours that came through Sacramento at the big civic center downtown on my own. You know, even as an elementary or junior high school kid.
Sacramento has a summer program or summer stock, the SAC, and the Sacramento Music Circus, which was in a big tent when I was growing up. It was a theater in the round, with a different musical every two weeks. And my mother would occasionally take us to that for the more kid-friendly shows. And then, one year for my birthday, she bought me a summer season subscription! The thought that I could do this for a living was never in the realm of the possible. But I got to college, and there were open auditions for a musical; mind you, I'd never taken a voice lesson in my entire life. But it was an open call, so I said, “Oh, anybody can show up.” So I showed up, sang “The Greatest Love of All” acapella, and got called back for the lead. I thought, “Wow, I must have talent.” It's the only thing that happened that entire first year. So I decided maybe I should take an acting class. That might be a good idea.
From there, I started acting and was the worst person in my acting class. There was only one person who was more challenged than I, and he literally froze and could not do his first monologue. He'd never been in an acting class or speech class in his entire life. But other than that, I would say I was bottom of the barrel in terms of acting.
But it got better, and I got cast in a couple of shows and started doing more of it. The seminal moment that I would like to talk about was with the new play development program and graduate program in the English department, not in the theater department at Brown, which was run by a theater person named Paula Vogel. Oh, yeah, one of America’s most influential playwrights and playwright instructors. She would do these workshops of graduate work featuring undergraduate students as actors. And I was in one, and I didn't understand what was going on with it. So I just made big, bold choices, and I remember Paula asked me at the end of it. She said, “Hmm! Do you direct?” And I don't know if it was cause the acting was so bad or if the choices were so bold. However, she always tried to have an undergraduate whom she highlighted, so she paired me with a fellow undergraduate to direct her play. That playwright's name was Rachel Shankin, who went on to win the Tony Award for the book for the PUTNAM COUNTY SPELLING BEE. So I directed her first show, and I was her first director. She was far more brilliant than I was, but again, I made some bold choices. I don't know if she was ever happy, but she was certainly gracious even then as a college student. That started me directing in college, and I got much better and really good at it. And by the time I left, I was pretty good. I got an education in college, which was good because it was very expensive. So that's how I got started in the first year at Brown. I was very fortunate.
Within the first six months after school, I had an internship in casting at Playwrights Horizons, and it was an amazing year. The theater produced a world premiere, and three Pulitzer Prize-winning works within four years. SUNDAY IN THE PARK WITH GEORGE, DRIVING MISS DAISY, and THE HEIDI CHRONICLES. THE HEIDI CHRONICLES was on Broadway then, so one of my jobs was to be a casting assistant on that show. I was actually there when Tony Shaloub came in to audition to play Scoop. He was sitting in a stage manager's office with the wonderful, departed Wendy Wasserstein, who was a lovely person and an amazing playwright. Also, that season was the workshop and first production of ONCE ON THIS ISLAND. So I met Stephen Flaherty and Lynn Ahrens, just the loveliest people in the entire world, and I got to watch a new musical develop from the workshop with the people in the room. For the first production, I was the person they set the lights to because I was the only person on staff with the right color to match the actors in the show.
And the second act of what is now FALSETTOS was done that year. It was one act, FALSETTO LAND. I have this wonderful picture of myself with the original cast, and I was sitting behind James Lapine on the opening night of that show. It was just an amazing time to be there. I was sitting at my desk as a lowly casting intern and filing pictures, and this bearded man came around the corner with his arms crossed because we were doing a workshop of his new musical. I looked up, and I internally gasped. I was smart enough not to gasp audibly, and very Homer Simpson style across my brain, I said, “Don't say something stupid. Don't say something stupid. Don't say something stupid!” and I turned to the bearded man with his arms crossed across his chest. I said, “Oh, I know who you are!” very casually, and he said, “Hi, I am Stephen Sondheim!” And I said, “Yes, I know! I love your work!” And he said, “Thank you.” It was an amazing experience at 21 years old.
I couldn't afford to be an intern in New York City anymore. So I went to. I was, became an assistant at a boutique talent agency. That year, we had a couple of Tony Award nominees, including Susan Schulman, on the first revival of SWEENY TODD at CIRCLE IN THE SQUARE. Rocky Carroll was one of our clients, and he was involved in the original production of the PIANO LESSON. In fact, I was sitting in Rocky's house seats with the two lead agents on the opening night of THE PIANO LESSON with Charles Dutton and Rocky Carroll, and as a young 21-year-old African American man, to see myself on Broadway in that way, as so beautifully depicted by August Wilson's play was life-altering. But four months later, I was out of New York and wasn't doing theater anymore. I sort of became a social justice warrior for a while.
Brett Cullum: Okay, I want my friends to take notes who tell me that I name-drop too much. This is how you name-drop like a pro, like all the greats, in a very short amount of time. I am going to learn so much from you! Derek, you are my Yoda!
Derek Charles Livingston: I didn't even say Bill Finn's name when I talked about FALSETTOS!
Brett Cullum: Okay. We'll sneak him in later. Now, you've obviously had a storied career. You've worked with great people. Sounds like the universe was on your side. It put some key people in place for you to really develop and become this amazing artist! We connect with people, leading us to the next thing. And now, your next thing is a very daunting job because you are stepping into some shoes… (Derek interrupts)
Derek Charles Livingston: Exciting job, rather than daunting! It’s a little bit more exciting than daunting.
Brett Cullum: No, no, I hear and feel you! But these shoes have been worn by someone before you as artistic director of STAGES HOUSTON for a quarter of a century. This was a huge, intense search to find someone to replace Kenn McLaughlin. So, how did you end up deciding that STAGES HOUSTON was where you needed to be? What about it made you say this is for Derek Charles Livingston?
Derek Charles Livingston: Well, I mentioned a little bit about Houston and its diversity, which was very important to me personally, but also meant that there was an audience here for works that really speak to me. Really, all kinds of theater speak to me. And so that seemed to be very possible here. The other thing was that that kind of work was very much in STAGES as a tradition! It had all types of work appealing to various audiences, from those things that make you laugh out loud to those that give you ugly cries. I had been an artistic director at a theater in Los Angeles, THE CELEBRATION, which had an intimate stage, and I just love the intimacy of theater in a small setting. I mean, I've worked in big theaters as well. But there's something very special about that. And STAGES has three intimate theaters!
You mentioned that I was the Director of New Play Development at the Utah Shakespeare Festival, which I did for four years, but for two of the years while I was doing that job, I was also the interim artistic director at this Tony Award-winning theater in Southern Utah. I have always loved the task of artistic direction, choosing a season of working with the artist, overseeing, and having conversations from that perspective. And so, the love of the job, the work that STAGES has been doing, and the reputation of STAGES here in Texas and Houston itself. They all added up to make me want to apply and to come here.
If you go to our website and visit our building, you'll see it writ large on our walls, “We sit together in the dark so we can learn how to love each other in the light.”
That idea is that we can still learn from each other. We can learn to love each other and be more human with one another, which is very much encoded almost in my DNA. It's a big part of the work I did when I wasn't doing theater, and it still guides me and feeds me as an artist. And the fact that was so important here is that it's on the walls and on our website. It's on the back of my business card, and this place's ethos and culture made this really the right fit for me. And I was lucky enough that the search committee saw something in me that they thought would be good for STAGES.
Brett Cullum: You know, STAGES HOUSTON exists in a very different space than most of the other Houston theaters because you've got venues like The Alley or The Hobby Center, which are very large spaces and not very intimate. And they're gonna produce the big, splashy PHANTOM OF THE OPERA, or like some big Agatha Christie murder mystery, or you know, something that's a spectacle, a pageant, if you will. And then you've got STAGES. It is a professional regional theatre that has done so many world premieres and impressive work. But the audience is right there in every space. There is not one area that feels like an auditorium. They all feel like you are right there. So, how are you going to select plays going forward? How? What are you looking for? What legacy do you want to leave because you inherited a season designed by Kenn right now? We really don't know you yet. What are you looking for out of this experience of being at STAGES, where it's so intensely intimate?
Derek Charles Livingston: Works that elucidate, entertain, and elevate our minds and our spirits. And they elevate people and the people in them. They elevate the audience members who come to attend. They educate us about who we are as human beings, and I want to distinguish that as being different from preaching or being very “messagey.” The best plays are the ones with the playwright’s goal and theme in them - maybe even the playwright's point of view. But I don't think it's good theater when it's polemical instead of being dramatic, story-driven, and interesting in that way. And so, to that point, plays with very strong characters and narratives are appropriate for our stage. So they don't overwhelm the audience by being too much and being too large. However, we can be very detailed within that, particularly in the approach to production values, storytelling, and performances. And you know, as an artistic director, I believe very strongly that artistic directors are artistically direct; that is, they impart an aesthetic and a belief, even when they're not directing to other directors and artists about what we're trying to do on this stage. And the audience we're trying to reach and the way in which we're trying to do it. And to me, the best works speak up to people and not talk down to them.
Brett Cullum: What do you think is your biggest challenge coming into STAGES HOUSTON? What are its biggest challenges right now from where it is?
Derek Charles Livingston: So, you know, having come from the Utah Shakespeare Festival, which is a storied 62-year-old Theater, and having been in conversations with theater leaders all across the country. We're still working and struggling to get audiences back post-pandemic, and the habit of attending theater has changed. And so learning to adjust to that. So you know, previously, theaters like ours, The Alley, and Utah Shakespeare Festival were very driven by subscribers who renewed season after season. A lot of that has gone away, and we have a rise of more single-ticket buyers. And so the thing is, we have to make sure that all of our productions are still meeting the mark, doing all the things I talked about for our regular audience members, and then building up an identity for them with the organization. So it's like a family, you know. I'll come to family dinner, and sometimes it's really great. And sometimes, you know, Uncle Joe says something that just really upsets me. But I will return to the next family dinner because I still love Uncle Joe. And then they're the single-ticket buyers. And so we have to ensure that we are strongly going after them for that particular show and that the experience is so great that they will go the next time we do a similar show that is attractive to them. They should think, “Let me return there again because I can trust them because the work was so good!” I liken it to the Beyonce ticket buyers and the Taylor Swift ticket buyers, and that there's some crossover there in those audiences. But both of those women are selling out auditoriums and stadiums. And it's for people who are going to see them. Theatergoers have shifted to that model. I want to see that thing and not just consistently go to a single theater overall.
And that's okay. We must acknowledge that's reality, and it's no one's fault, and we certainly can't blame audience members for being that way. That's asinine to blame people for how they absorb drama. And the other thing is, we really want to lean in at STAGES to what is the total theater-going experience? So that you know you can sit at home and watch Netflix and see anything you want at one o'clock in the morning or two o'clock in the morning. But when you come to the theater, not only sit in a group and absorb narrative with other people, which is a different experience but what is the experience when you walk into our lobby and walk into our space? We also want to be bumping up and increasing the sort of post-show discussions we have and post-show discussions that aren't just with the actors and the director or the playwright. But are there people in the community who have connections to the themes and to the stories that are on our stages so that an audience member who comes to that particular talk back might hear firsthand from someone in the community? It goes beyond what the show is about. So we're really engaging people. And hopefully, people who come to those experiences will go, “Oh, when I go to STAGES HOUSTON, it's not just the show. It's the full experience. And I cannot get that sitting at home.
Brett Cullum: I think you guys have a chance to do something like that, which is so different from the big tours and traveling shows. It's amazing. And I encourage anybody who's never gone to experience STAGES.
Derek Charles Livingston: Oh! And because we have a really good bar, too!
Brett Cullum: I ate dinner there the other night… wine and cheese! Well, tell me, what are some of your personal favorite plays? I would love to get to know your taste.
Derek Charles Livingston: It's funny because this is where being an artistic director, it's really important to understand your own aesthetic, but also speaking to an audience, so I will get up at 3 o'clock in the morning to go see UNCLE VANYA. Not everyone will do that; most people will come at 8 o'clock to see UNCLE VANYA. And that's okay. But I love it, right? I mentioned earlier THE PIANO LESSON, which is still one of my all-time great experiences in theater, and I think the language in August Wilson's plays is incredible.
One of the most profound and emotional experiences I've had in a theater, I will say, came from one playwright, Matthew Lopez. So Matthew Lopez wrote THE WHIPPING MAN which I had a chance to do as an actor. It was the most emotionally arresting and involved experience I had playing Simon in that production in Las Vegas. There were times when the other two actors and I… well… it ended in a very emotional moment, and all and all of us were crying. We would come off stage in the dressing room, look at each other, and cry all over again. Interestingly enough, Matthew Lopez's THE INHERITANCE is a completely different type of play, which I saw literally the last day on Broadway before the pandemic before Governor Cuomo closed the theaters.
I talked about that period after living in New York and doing theater. Well, the job that I got after that was an AIDS prevention educator in Rhode Island, and did that work throughout all of New England, which meant that at 22 years old, not only was my job HIV prevention and education, but then also when I was surrounded by community, you know, as an openly queer man where people were dying. I realized I hadn't processed that. And a moment in Matthew Lopez's play undid me so much. I sobbed. My sobs filled the theatre so much that I had strangers walking up to me and giving me hugs during the intermission break. There was this part of me that was so emotionally drawn in that I could not control my sobbing. In fact, a theater reviewer wrote about the experience of sitting in the audience with me without ever, and I met him a year later what that was like to have this man so emotionally moved by this.
And then there, as a theater professional, I was cataloging, “Oh, this is a problem. He should fix that, or this doesn't quite land.” Jump forward to a year later, the Geffen Theater in Los Angeles does the West Coast premiere of THE INHERITANCE. I swear it's as if Matthew Lopez and I had a conversation because almost everything for me that was problematic in the New York production he had addressed for this Los Angeles production, and he was there that night. It was opening night, and I said, “I noticed some things are different and in a very exciting way!” And he said, “Yes, you know, I really wanted to make it possible for this production of THE INHERITANCE here to have its own voice and to work in some very particular ways!” To me, that is an exciting thing as an artist because he got a Tony Award for that New York production, but still felt that the work could be better. And that's the sign of a true artist, right? But you know those are my most profound experiences.
And I think one of the finest American musicals written in the last 25 years is a very nonmusical in terms of its theme and subject. But it shows how the musical has matured. And that's NEXT TO NORMAL!
Brett Cullum: I can tell you that one of your best directors, Mitchell Greco, is dying to do CABARET at STAGES. So file that away.
Derek Charles Livingston -Stages Houston: Oh, it's it's trust me, it's there, and I love CABARET. In fact, I saw literally three productions of it last year in the West End, in Utah at a college production, and I saw another production in Los Angeles! Every one of them was different and really wonderful. CABARET is such a great show, and it can speak; it never stops speaking about whatever is happening in our current culture.
Brett Cullum: Well, thank you so much, Derek Charles Livingston; we have gone on and on, and I'm sure everybody's reading this like, “What are these two really doing?”
Derek Charles Livingston: Yes, obviously, we're talking STAGES HOUSTON! And I'm excited to be here, and I hope everyone comes to STAGES! So come, support us! Thank you for this time. I really appreciate it.
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