In Conversation: The Cast of 'Radio Golf' at the Denver Center

During its run at the Space Theater at the Denver Center Theater Company, I had the pleasure of sitting down and talking with the cast members of "Radio Golf". (Kim Staunton, , Darryl , Terence Riggins and Charles Weldon ) What started out as an interview with 9 questions for the actors turned into a very spirited, frank and informative "conversation". (Which is what I had hoped for and expected) I have known Terrence, Kim, Harvy and Charles for a number of years through my volunteer work at the Center as they have returned to perform in the plays presented at the Theater Company so I was very excited about this interview! On the day of the interview, a very interesting thread was started here on Broadway World's main page about African Americans attending the theater. I brought this up to the actors and you will read here what their thoughts are on that subject. They also discuss working with the play's Director , Israel Hicks, the play and its themes.

On working with Israel Hicks...

Kim: He's extraordinary and like August, I think Israel is a treasure. I heard Harvy (Blanks) call August that the other day and it really stuck with me and kind of resonated since I heard him say that. I think Israel is a treasure, an American treasure, as well. And I think he kind of America's well kept secret but we've all benefited over the years. He's an extraordinary person and an extraordinary director and it's always not just a pleasure, but an honor and a privilege to work with him every time he chooses me! I always remind him that there are so many others he could choose and the fact that he chooses me is really special for me and I am humbled by it. He's amazing, (The rest of the cast chimed in with agreement) he really is. A brilliant, brilliant director and a wonderful human being.

Knowing the cycle and the thread that goes through August's plays, how do you navigate through the different parts you have played?

Darryl: It is the basic work of an actor. Now the additional thing is that thread, and that...a lot of it depends on the director in terms of pulling that thread through and making sure that it is either a seamless thread or a nice contrasting stitch! But either way, I think the director adds that texture. As actors, I think we do what we normally do from one role to the next.

Kim: Sometimes some of the men repeat. (The cast agreed) Sometimes I think it is helpful to make that linkage. I think I remember Israel saying "Remember when he says that in that play"? He made references to that..to certain characters.

On what keeps you coming back to the DCTC? (Even with Streetcar)

Terrence: Invitations! (Everyone laughed)

Charles: It's a little more than that! It's a family. It really is a family thing. A lot of us turned down other jobs to make sure we could be here at this time. Because we all knew we wanted to come and do this. It was about coming and finishing what we started.

Kim: And they give us a home here. There's nothing like this process. Harvy said it the other day, he was like "I could go back into rehearsal all over again and start this all over again". It's really going to be hard to leave this one in two weeks. It really has been a holy sacred experience. And not just because it's August's final play and the tie together in that we are experiencing this great history, but because this is a family! This is a unique, wonderful family. There's nothing like having an extraordinary company of actors that you can work with. Each and every single one! That you know has your back every night and that you know that this is a collaboration. And then this beautiful work that Israel has placed on us and it being August, and then the Denver Center giving us a home! Each and every season! When something happens that we can be a part of. It is an extraordinary place to grow and to develop as an actor. And I think we are all still doing that. As long as we are acting, we are all still doing that. And it is a wonderful, wonderful, one of the best regional theaters in the country. And I think many of us have been to several other ones to know that it's top notch! So to be invited here...we were saying the other day that there are actors now that are going "Can you put in a word for me? You go there a lot. Can you say something to somebody!"

In "Radio Golf", Darryl Alan Reed is "the new kid on the block". I asked him his thoughts on working with the other actors in the show who have already worked together so many times.

Darryl: It's working well. I don't want to be premature! (The rest of the cast laughed.) I've enjoyed myself. They have welcomed me and I feel like I am a part of the family. It's been a great experience. I have had the chance to work with Harvy once before as well as Israel two years ago. We did a joint venture with Pasadena Playhouse in Cleveland Playhouse. That was kind of an extended gig, if you will, so I really got a chance to know each of them even better and I looked forward to coming to possibly coming to Denver at some point and I didn't expect this. When it happened It was just another one of those blessings where I was put in it and don't even realize the full scope of it until I'm in it. It's still overwhelming actually. I'm a pretty quiet laid back guy but I have been pretty overwhelmed by this whole experience.

The final moments of the show hit me and my theater partner. (It involves a picture of Tiger Woods) The show deals with, among other things, a kind of an "interracial class divide". At the center of the play is a house that is going to be torn down, owned by a black person, to make way for a new development with a high rise. The house sits right in the center of the land where the development is to go up. The character Roosevelt Hicks, played by Darryl Alan Reed, is looking to get ahead and is doing it by partnering with a rich white businessman. The character Harmond Wilks is not happy about this, especially because Hicks is his business partner. The play also addresses the "N" word. I asked if this "divide" still exists in 2009. The play is set in 1997.

Terrence: I think there is always going to be that. I think when we have representation that goes beyond that, that refutes those really kind of narrow minded ideas about class, about race, about this tribal elitism, then I think, when we have a black president I think there's less justification for it. I think there is a greater contradiction to those small minded ideas and you realize "Wait a minute. I am living in a society where the president is black"! And that's the macrocosm. Now I can be microcosmic and just key in on my narrow-mindedness and my point of view and my own kind of warped need and my ego to be better than and put other people down so I stand above. That's really kind of a selfish egotistical thing in my understanding of it. But I think when you have representation like that..a black president, a black first family, Tiger Woods and I think it's....but then they're all...are pockets where you know folks say, "Ok, that's them but look at us", economically speaking. In my hood, it hasn't changed you know, but in a way it has. You know, I think it's perception.

Harvy: Well a woman yesterday, I think it was something that you were dealing with Darryl, relative to the re-gentrification aspects of it...the lady said (talking about the play) "Well the people that are being moved out are black people and they are going to be displaced because of this high rise." But I had to think about that. There was something puzzling me in terms of why I was reacting viscerally. And that's not necessarily true. There is class involved in the black experience and a lot of those people that are going to be moving into that high rise are going to be black elites. And what they will probably do is parcel off a few apartments for lower income people and there will be some white people. But by and large if you look at what's happening in Harlem, for instance, a lot of those people that are coming into those apartments are black elites. So basically there will be a displacement, but it won't necessarily be racial in as much as having a predominant white class move in. White upper class. It's going to be a lot of black people moving in. So we do deal with an elite kind of thing and we do deal with social construction such as language and what nigger means to someone today certainly can be looked at differently. Because the word itself has been deconstructed and we dealt with that particular subject matter a couple of weeks ago and what I failed to, and it was a white guy who asked about the word nigger, what I failed to basically bring to him was the significance in that word today, contemporarily, is the fact that he can be a nigger. Because the youngsters are using that word in that way. So it's a social construction that has gone through the obvious changes over the decades. And it means something else entirely different to them.

KIM (To Harvy): And like you said, it depends on who uses it and how they use it.

I then turned to a discussion that had started on the BWW website the morning of this interview. I promised the readers that I would discuss the subject with the actors. I asked them, from a black actors perspective "why do you feel that we don't see more black people attending theater"?

Kim: It feels that most regions in the country have subscribership, obviously. And most of those subscribers tend to be white. But what I find lacking is outreach. That is what was so wonderful about the African American Task Force. (The Task force was the first volunteer organization at the Denver Center) You guys brought us together to then...I remember going to some forums. We went into the community, had receptions there and we met the people and I loved that! And so I am finding now, based on what I experienced with the AATF over the years, when I go to these other regions I'm like "What do you want me to do? Nobody's using me"! So that is what I feel is lacking, it's outreach. And as my ex-husband said recently, he's very frustrated because he is a writer and director and he gets to take his plays to theaters and he wants those communities to see his plays just like he wants the communities to see August. You know, our communities, black communities. But it's the same problem. They just don't have forums or a means in place to get those people out. So what he said, the point that he made was he said "I'm not just talking about for my plays, for black plays or August plays. I'm talking about for all of the plays". It's necessary. It's mandatory....It has to be across the board. But you've got to begin somewhere!

I then said that as far as beginning the process, one of my thoughts was education.

Kim: Absolutely! Absolutely! Which seems to be dwindling as we speak! And that's the first thing that gets cut all across the board. Whether it's the theater, the public schools or the government, it's always the first thing to go. But within this forum, I absolutely agree.

Harvy: To isolate this point even further, there are two things. One, if you look at all of the studies on arts and education and what happens when you liberally introduce children to arts, as they are growing up it really develops their minds to such a degree that they become very skilled in math and other special kinds of entities and it's a scientific fact that children are much more rounded when they are introduced to the arts. Second thing, apathy. Now...there is a school here...the transportation has been cut to come to these things because of finances. They offered this one particular black school, free, everything. Just get them here. The principal said "I don't want these kids missing class". However, to show how hypocritical this is, the kids are going out to Coors Stadium. I don't know if it is to a game but to check out the marketing aspects of Coors and running a baseball team. A field trip that they are going to have to pay for. But it would have been free...and not only that, if you think about it. And it really doesn't take much thinking. Tis is a multi-million dollar facility. You have a marketing department here! (At the DCPA) You have people who are going to be willing sit down with these kids and go through what the marketing aspects of what THIS is! And each department is basically broken into different aspects of the arts and business!

I interjected that what would most likely happen with these students is that after they learned the business aspects of the center, they would most likely be able to attend a performance of "Radio Golf". Everyone agreed.

Terrence: But we have to ask as well, the principal of this school, what was her exposure to the arts? How does she value it? Or de-value it? So it's all relative.

I then said that the second part of that is, again, why we don't see more black adults in the theater. I told them that in the past black adults that I asked to go to the theater with me would not go unless it was a black oriented show. Other shows were for the "elite" or white people.

Darryl: One, what you are touching on is exposure. And another carry over, when I was growing up, if I had thought early on that I wanted to be an actor and that's what I wanted to pursue, I don't think that my parents would have embraced it other than the fact that they trusted me in what I wanted to do. There were a lot of households in my era where that wasn't a viable something. So when you have a principal saying you know...it's relative...it's probably because that principal did not understand the value of it. In terms of the arts based on the research that we have that shows that it actually stimulates....the other thing I want to say is that black people go to see Tyler Perry! And, just saying, is there a bridge that we can draw? What attracts them is the fact...one is advertising. They here it and how ever silly or whatever it is, they pay for the advertising and they may pay for one or two stars, that's more administrative...the fact is they put the word out. Black people think "Oh, I'm taking you to the theater"! It's about exposure. If that's what they feel like, they're taking a person out and they are getting that culture.."they" don't understand that there is a difference between a Tyler Perry and August Wilson....

The conversation then turned to who are "they"? The black populous that we want to come to theater?

Harvy: What I am saying is, "they", in its purest forms in terms of marketing "they", theses people here, don't understand "that", that aspect of marketing. Instead of going to the usuAl White clientel to market a particular piece, "theey" should go to "those" people to market this play.
Kim: Yes, because that's what Tyler Perry has going for him. He has top notch marketing!
Terrence: It's also dramatic form too. It's also word of mouth because, I don't know, there's another kind of aesthetic between a Tyler Perry play and an August Wilson play. We can't deny that and I don't want to get into that because that's a grey area.....It's what really toches us really, what's sensational...its cultural, aesthetics....

We then discussed which members of the black community go to see a Tyler Perry Play and who goes to see an August Wilson Play.

Harvy: I still believe it is marketing because I saw a brother the other day and he was like this (Harvy leaned back and crossed his arms) and he had his foot on the set. He was in the first row. He had a little bling! And he had a good time! It's about marketing!!!
Darryl: In terms of the word of mouth thing, yeah, but I think that the advance sales will show that that's not the biggest thing. I think these people are buying these tickets because it's the event. And once they are there...

Terrence: We like to come together. We like to meet.

Darryl: And they don't have a lot to compare it to...

Terrence: And that's what was so valuable about the Task Force....

Harvy: ..Because it was black people going into the community. We can't think that we have come so far that we don't have a racial relationship, you know, and like you're saying, Tyler Perry can come in, he has name recognition and what they think is, "Oh, black"!

Terrence: But also has television informed..influenced that sitcom type...you know because the Tyler Perry's stuff is sitcom stuff. The sitcom, the television has cultivated an audience that's ready for Tyler Perry....

Kim: But even before that, one of the other niches he had was the thematic niche. It's always a Christian theme. Who comes to his plays? The Churches! And that's back to marketing.

I interjected...even with the Tyler Perry shows, people who consider themselves to be middle class African Americans, a lot of people like us will see just about everything such as, "Owen Meaney", Sunsets & Margueritas, including shows like "The Color Purple", "Caroline or Change" and "Radio Golf", with black themes. But the bottom line is that they all tell a story. But why are the adults like us still not going to the theater? But you can get some of these people to go see a Tyler Perry show.

Darryl: I would venture to say that ninety percent of those people that see the Tyler Perry shows would enjoy seeing this show (Radio Golf). It's just about getting them here.

Harvy: That's why I mentioned the brother I talked about earlier, that was sitting there. That was my point. You get them here and they'll say "Wow, another experience"! They'll enjoy Tyler Perry for what that is and they'll enjoy August Wilson for what it is.

Kim: And we have all been a testimonial to that haven't we Harv? We see the difference in all of the August Wilson plays we've done either here or Pittsburgh or elsewhere. And you see when the black audiences come in, how much they enjoy it!

I will end it with asking what advice do you have for young kids and young African American kids that want to become actors.

Darryl: My advice is to read. Do as much reading as you can because it opens up your world. It is also going to help you, if you are thinking about being an actor, deal with the language and help you with auditioning to get the roles. For me theater has illuminated so much of history. American History, all kinds of history for me that I glanced over in school because I didn't think it was important. Once you start researching a part, or a role or a period of a play, it re-informs what you kind of only fleetingly heard in school and you begin to put those pieces back together. Not only in your life but in American History and World History. And then you become a citizen of the world. I think reading is very very important as a nucleus. There are specific things you can do, but I think that is one of the most important, ealiest things one can do.

Charles: The first piece that I ever went to...I was already smitten with show business by the time I was nine or Ten. But then I went to see Leontyne Price at the Chicago Opera. It was one of the most fantastic..I mean at 10 years old sitting down listening to Leontyne Price...it was..it was a field trip from our school. Our music instructor at the school was very cultured. An African American lady who wanted to give us these experiences. She bought all of the tickets and the whole class went out...and I sat there and I just remember red. The curtains. And when she and all of the other singers opened their mouths, it was over! I didn't understand a word that they were saying! But I knew that what I was witnessing...yes! And I think it's what we all have been saying in concurrence...experience. Not just Tyler Perry but Denver Center for the Performing Arts and Shadow Theater. You know, just experience. Live your life. Don't think that you will be a star one day because it's work! We're blue collars. But experience everything you can and learn. That's what will make you an actor.

My thanks to the cast of "Radio Golf" for taking the time, just before having to go into make-up and costumes, to sit down with me. As expected, it was a great conversation and it was wonderful to see you again and meet the new member of the family! I know how much you love the Denver Center and I expect to see you all back on our stages. I'm going to "Hold you to it"!
Also, my thanks to Chris Wiger for setting up this interview. During a very busy week of openings, you fit me in.

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