Interview: Charlotte Crossley And Ava Nicole Frances of MUTUAL ADMIRATION at Feinstein's/54 Below

They say good things are worth waiting for but the big question is: whose wait has been longer? The ladies of MUTUAL ADMIRATION or the 54 Below audiences? Although Broadway veteran Charlotte Crossley and up-and-comer Ava Nicole Frances had announced the New York debut of their Duo Nightclub Act, it was back-burnered by circumstances beyond their control. Now, two years later, the multi-generational best friends are ready to say hello to the audience that had tickets before the pandemic, and the ones who are just getting tickets because they have gotten to know Ava and Charlo through their album or through the internet. To sweeten the deal, the two women have made the program an evening of female empowerment by inviting a couple of friends to swing by and join in the fun: Ula Hedwig and Kate Loprest.

While Crossley and Frances are busily flying into the city and setting up rehearsals, both actresses generously took some time out to do a little q&a with Broadway World Cabaret to discuss the past, the future, their dynamic, and the experience of being strong women in show business.

This interview was conducted digitally and is reproduced with minor edits.

Ava Nicole Frances and Charlo Crossley, welcome to Broadway World!

Both: Thank you!

You ladies are finally getting to perform your show MUTUAL ADMIRATION at 54 Below this Sunday, after waiting out the lockdown, the pandemic, and two years. Ava, put a picture in my head of how it feels to, at long last, be making this appearance.

Ava: It feels unbelievable! I began my cabaret career when I was 8 at Cast Party with Jim Caruso in San Francisco. After seeing Barbra Streisand in concert the night before, I was inspired to perform at the open mic super last minute and I begged my dad to take me. I ended up singing "Tomorrow" from Annie, and my dad just saw how much I loved it and thought, "If they can do it, so can we!" So we did. We put together our own cabaret show, which was an autobiographical show that told our story as a non-traditional family through a lot of traditional great American songbook songs. And then this became a goal - to perform at 54 Below. Now 10 years later, it's happening, and it feels very full circle for me. It's such an honor. I've seen the talent that has been on that stage and to be added to that list is incredible. And it feels like it is the right time to come back because I feel as though the show waited for this moment when the world is being reborn in a way, and so is my world as I move into adulthood.

Charlotte, the whole world has changed in the last two years; has this show undergone any modifications, or is it mostly the same as it was before the world took a pause?

Charlo: If I can pick up where Ava left off... the world has changed, and we all have as a result. The pandemic has forced us to confront our lives on all levels. Don't we all have a new perspective on nearly everything?

Also, Ava was just 15 when we began this journey three years ago, and now she is a young woman of 18, so there is much more freedom in what we can say and do and how we can relate to each other and the material. So yes, there are modifications in this new incarnation of Mutual Admiration. It's been tailored to NYC and Broadway, and to my return and Ava's future in The City. New York formed me and made me who I am today. I am sure it will do the same for Ava. And of course, I must mention the added bonus of our illustrious guest starts, Broadway's Ms. Kate Loprest and legendary Harlette Ms. Ula Hedwig.

The event page on the 54 Below website describes you as an odd couple. Is that just about the age difference, or are there other factors to your friendship and work relationship that contribute to that description?

Ava: I think definitely the age difference and life experience, of course. But here's the thing: to the outside world, we could not possibly be more opposite. Our voices are different, we come from very different backgrounds, Charlo's in LA, I'm San Francisco. I've been raised by 2 dads, which is a vastly different experience from anyone who hasn't been brought up by two dads. Also, we're completely at opposite ends of the theatre spectrum. Charlo is a total veteran, she's done it all, and I'm just starting out at the beginning. All these differences, the experience levels (in life and otherwise), the age and so on, it all gets wiped away by our mutual admiration and our love of performance. And in reality we're best friends, we just adore each other. Our personalities click. We raise each other up. In reality we are an odd couple, but totally the right couple.

Charlotte was there a defining moment that made you realize you and Ava would make a good duo act?

So the funny thing is, we met each other, fell in love at first song, and in the thrill of that moment, we decided we'd work together. We really didn't have a defining moment until we already committed... and booked a venue!

We had seen each other perform separately so we knew what the other could do. But we really acted on instinct because it simply felt right. Then some time later, I had a dream about it... it told me it was right.

Ava: I think my dad saw the chemistry instantly on the first day Charlo and I met. We were appearing separately at a benefit in LA. I went on first and then Charlo a few minutes later, and before she was going to sing her song, she looked at me in the audience and said, "You know you'd make a great Tracy Turnblad!" We started having this conversation right in the middle of the show, and the audience was enjoying it, and my dad thought, "What the hell is going on, this is magic!"

Charlo: And after that, we promised to do something together. It wasn't until about a year later and I had my dream and I said, "I'm ready if you are?"

Ava: And we still had not sung a note together. Now we are at our first rehearsal and we start throwing around songs and Michael starts to play, "Happy Days Are Here Again / Get Happy" and we just launch into it, and it was perfect. And all four of us just looked at each other and said, "I think we got a show".

Ava, walk me through the process of creating a nightclub act for two different talents from different generations.

Ava: I mean we sing a bit of Shakespeare, so there's that! And we mash it with a bit of "Waitress" because why not! That's just what we do.

My dad is the director of this show, which automatically makes it better and easier. He knows me and Charlo so well and everything that does or doesn't work for us. We're comfortable with each other's creative process. And by that I mean we are comfortable to argue it out. LOL! I enjoy putting songs together. I have to tell you, I first directed a full-on musical in middle school. And I lived to tell about it. Like father, like daughter! It was a teenage musical review with tons of age-inappropriate songs. Totally iconic. But let's not go there.

Also, I'm still in high school, so a lot of the time I find myself finishing up at school and hopping on a flight to LA to spend the weekend rehearsing. We do all our rehearsing in LA because Charlo and our musical director Michael Collum live there, so I practically live there halftime as well.

And working with Charlo is like working with family too (Mama Charlo!). She teaches me about the industry and a performer's life through her stories of touring with Ms. Midler and her Broadway and recording career. At my age Charlo was in Paris doing this on her own! She tells me stories (oh the stories!) of these amazing things she's done. It's just one huge collaboration and I am super proud of it!

So, in terms of creating our act: we set it up so we appear together at first in an opening number to introduce ourselves, our relationship and our chemistry. Then we each do separate sets to show who we are as individuals. But even in our solo sets, the influence we've had on each other comes through, so by the time we come back as a duo, the audience gets it! And we blow the roof off the joint together.

There are a lot of duos out there, all of them with unique dynamics around which their act hinges. How would you describe the Charlo/Ava brand?

Charlo: I think we are a modern throwback. We consider ourselves a modern family doing schtick, standards, comedy, modern pieces, you name it. But always pure entertainment, like the old variety shows. Always with a lot of heart.

Ava: I agree. Words that come to mind are spontaneous, fun, funny, real, thoughtful -- we are definitely a modern throwback! And we are rooted in reality. I'll give you an example: we take our real life dialogue, like when Charlo teaches me about relationships, and out of that, we created a medley where she actually does so onstage, which speaks to the spontaneity of our relationship. There isn't a moment when we aren't having the best time and cracking each other up. Rehearsals with our team are my favorite. By the way, I teach her a thing or two about relationships too!

Ava, as a young woman who has already had some success in show business, what is the most prominent lesson you have learned from Charlotte about being a female artist working in the business?

Ava: I think for one, just how important having a support system is. Being a woman in this industry is hard enough as it is... it's competitive and difficult and can definitely be sexist, and racist. Charlo and I are both women of color and so along with other women of color, and women in general, we have to have each other's backs. That's a big part of what the show is about - the mutual admiration and love shared between women.

Artistically, I watch Charlo in awe... how she can go from hilarious to heartbreaking in a heart beat, no pun intended, while always remaining in the center of the song. It's quite a gift.

Charlotte, there are those who believe that surrounding oneself with younger people, with younger artists, helps keep one active and en pointe during the years of, shall we say, advanced glamor. Has working with Ava given you any insightful thoughts on that philosophy?

Charlo: Yes, pairing myself with Ms. Ava is certainly a way of keeping up to date. Looking at this young woman, I find myself reliving my own past, especially when I was just starting out. The creativity. The drive. The desire to pursue the arts no matter what reflects my own history so vividly. We are a living continuum of the theatre -- very "All About Eve!" As for 'advanced glamour', a little Face App goes a long way.

The show Mutual Admiration is not a new show - you actually have a CD of a previous performance. As you came back to do this iteration of the program, did you find that the play was still in your bones? Or did you each have to rediscover it?

Ava: Actually I didn't have to rediscover it. The show is so real and true to me that it's just telling my story with one of the greatest performers and friends I'm lucky enough to know. I think this show will always be in my bones, I've put so much into it. We have a few new numbers and new dialogue, but our story is the same and our love of performing it has only grown.

Charlo: But there was a point where I think we got so close and familiar that we started to forget how extraordinary our relationship is and just took it for granted, as you do with family. We had to remember our original intent for new audiences, which came to us quite naturally.

This is a time of change for both of you strong, empowered women, isn't it? Charlotte, you are returning to New York, the city where you started your career, a couple of years ago. What's it feel like to come full circle in this way?

Charlo: Coming to NYC with my darling Ava is a monumental prayer answered. We are staying focused and in the moment to experience this journey with wide-eyed excitement. I always come back to the fact that NYC formed me. It was crystal clear when I returned to Broadway to close "Hairspray" in 2008. This feels like that again. A mystical thing. Standing in the wings, waiting for your entrance, and you can smell it. There goes Eve again! So it is full circle, and I'm so grateful, and thrilled for Ava and I to experience this together.

And Ava, an invested party tells me you will start at NYU in the fall. Talk to me about your vision board for the future.

Ava: I do start NYU!!! August 27th, and yes I have a countdown on my phone. I can't believe it! It's been my biggest dream, my biggest goal in life (so far!), only second to being on Broadway. I heard about NYU when I was in 2nd grade and I've had my heart set on it ever since. It's actually the only school I applied to (but don't tell my parents!). It's unreal that I'll be there and I'm so excited. I've been accepted to major in musical theatre at TISCH, and I've decided to double minor in creative writing and psychology. When I was 15 I came up with this "5 year plan" -- which is now a 1 1/2 year plan -- to be on Broadway by the time I'm 20! I'm gonna work even harder to make that dream come true as well. Of course Broadway, but also writing, directing - I want to do it all.

There has been an addition to your 54 Below show: you now have guest artists. What was the determining factor that led to this change in the program?

Charlo: I insisted that Ava meet and work with Ula Hedwig, and my instinct was spot on. Ula and I have been life-long friends, starting out in the Chicago company of "Hair". She is like a sister to me. An interesting dynamic grew out of the three of us working together because Ula and I met when we were Ava's age now. So many memories. It made our connection all the more meaningful, and we made Ava an honorary Harlette, as only two former Harlettes can.

Ava: So having Ula, and also having Kate Loprest as a special guest shows just how rooted we are in theatre history! I met Kate online when she became a performance coach for me for guest work and auditioning that I was doing during the pandemic. We hit it off! I don't think I could have asked for a better coach. We clicked so fast, and then we found out she was the Amber to Charlo's Motormouth on the national tour and closing Broadway cast of Hairspray. And we just felt like that was fate! Kate has been so amazing to work with and I'm so excited to have her by my side. By the way, going back to middle school again, I played Tracy, so we are whipping up a rousing "Hairspray" finale!

Ava, what is your favorite song to hear Charlo sing?

WHEN YOU'RE GOOD TO MAMA!!! I think that has to be one of my top favorites. She cracks me up every time, especially because I call her mama. That one, along with our signature "Happy Days/Get Happy" mash-up, which was, as we mentioned, the first song we ever sang together, quite spontaneously I might add. Honestly there isn't anything I wouldn't love to hear her sing because she puts her unique spin on every song. Charlo could sing the phone book and I'd be happy.

Charlotte, what is an acting role you are positive is in Ava's path?

I believe that Ms. Ava's acting possibilities are limitless. I think her career trajectory is going to soar. Her abilities and instincts are astounding for a person so young.

I always see her in the shows I've done, and she always laughs because they're from my point of reference from the grand old '70's. Mary Magdalene in "Jesus Christ Superstar". Sheila in "Hair". Also "Evita", which I've not done. Yet!

Ava: Yes! Anything that Patti LuPone has done. Or my other queen Eva Noblezada.

And on that note... Mr. Mosher, thank you so, so much for interviewing us. So honored. Thank you!

Ladies, I am most grateful to you for talking with us today. I look forward to seeing the show on Sunday. Have fun!

Charlo: Thank you so much, Stephen! Let's go on with the show!!

Charlotte Crossley and Ava Nicole Frances MUTUAL ADMIRATION plays Feinstein's/54 Below on May 1st. For information and tickets visit the 54 Below website HERE.

Visit the Ava Nicole Frances website HERE and the Kate Loprest website is HERE.

Charlo Crossley is on Instagram HERE.

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