Cardinal Timothy Dolan, Archbishop of New York, said that Pope Francis' homily to the College of Cardinals at the Consistory in Rome over the weekend was "right on target" in urging the cardinals to avoid intrigue, gossip, cliques, favoritism and preferences, in an interview that was broadcast live, today, Feb. 24, 2014 on CBS This Morning (7:00-9:00 AM) on the CBS Television Network.
"Anybody that knows Church history knows that at its best the College of Cardinals has been a great sign of service, even spilling one's blood in defense of the Gospel," Dolan told co-hosts Charlie Rose, Gayle King and Norah O'Donnell. "But at its worst, it's been the location of gossip and intrigue and secrecy and this is not good. Pope Francis is right on target. He's honest, he's prophetic, he's a good spiritual director, he's our father, and he's calling out what's best in us."
Dolan also discussed Pope Benedict's surprise appearance at the Consistory, saying that he appeared "fragile" but "as sparkling and alive as ever." Dolan addressed potential push-back within the Catholic Church against Pope Francis' attempts to change the traditional style and tone, telling
CBS that the Pope is "very open" to feedback from the cardinals.
Excerpts of the interview are below.
Watch the appearance here:
ROSE: Yes, you are. So tell us, what's the significance of these two popes together at this moment?
DOLAN: I can tell you first of all, the personal significance for me, and I think I speak for my brother cardinals in the College of Cardinals, it was extraordinarily moving. We didn't know he was coming. So there we are and he makes this very humble, shy, discrete entrance on the side. The people nearby were erupting in applause, and we were like little kids. All the sudden we just ran up to greet him. We hadn't seen him - remember the events of a year ago - we hadn't seen him since then. We found him a little more fragile, a little more bent, but as sparkling and alive as ever, and it was just very moving to see him.
NORAH O'DONNELL: I know you are there for the Cardinal Consistory, where the new cardinals have been put in place. And it was interesting to hear the Pope's homily where he said may all of us avoid and help others avoid habits and ways of acting typical of a court: intrigue, gossip, cliques, favoritism and preferences. Why do you think he said that?
DOLAN: Well, because we need to hear it. I think human beings in general need to hear it. I need to hear it. And I think the College of Cardinals needs to hear it. Anybody that knows Church history knows that at its best the College of Cardinals has been a great sign of service, even spilling one's blood in defense of the Gospel. But at its worst, it's been the location of gossip and intrigue and secrecy, and this is not good. Pope Francis is right on target. He's honest, he's prophetic, he's a good spiritual director, he's our father, and he's calling out what's best in us.
GAYLE KING: And how was the message received? Because I don't think most people think of cardinals as gossiping.
ROSE: Oh my goodness.
DOLAN: We're human beings. We're human beings. And I'm afraid we have all the flaws that any human being has. Norah can tell you that, because she's had a meal with me. So she knows some of my flaws. But no, we are, we're very susceptible to it.
ROSE: You know what's interesting to me is that former Pope Benedict took it off the cap, which is white, but he took it off out of respect for the Pope. Correct?
DOLAN: You're right, Charlie, you were wise to notice that. This is our Zucchetto, so we take it off to people who are above us. So we take it off when we pray because we're addressing the lord. And we take it off, we cardinals, when we meet the Holy Father. And it was very moving to see Pope Benedict, That act of humility and allegiance. It reminds us of what he said, remember a year ago when he met with the College of Cardinals for the last time. He said, "One of you is going to be the new pope and I look forward to giving my love, loyalty and allegiance to the new pope." He's done that from the beginning but it was very dramatic when he did it Saturday at the Consistory.
O'DONNELL: Cardinal, you and I have spoken about this, that Pope Francis has changed many things. But what about those critics who say it's just tone? What specifically is changing in the Catholic Church?
DOLAN: We have talked about that, and remember we have observed that Pope Francis is a loyal Catholic. He calls himself a loyal son of the Church. He knows that the substance, the essence of the Church, he can't change that. We received that, that's settled, that's given. He can change the style and the tone and many people will tell you, that's where the Church needs to change. It's not what we say so often that puts people off, it's how we say it. It's a sense of negativity and judgementalism and exclusion. So, Pope Francis is a champion in speaking the truth with love. So it really is the style, the method, the tone. And we need a refreshing change and he's given it to us.
ROSE: But clearly there is some push, there has been in the Church in terms of some, I don't want to say doctrine, I'm not a Catholic, the notion of divorce and lots of other issues that are important to people who are Catholic. Let me ask you this question, in terms of what this pope has brought to Catholicism, where is the push back coming from? Where is the resistance?
DOLAN: You meant, Charlie, to potential change?
ROSE: Yes. In other words, for all of the opening and transparency and all that he's accomplished, is anyone in the Church saying, "Wait a minute, this is too far, too much, too fast?"
DOLAN: Some are, and the Pope is very open. He says, "I need to hear that." He's a man of deep peace and serenity. He says speak the truth. If you don't we need changes in style and method, let me know, speak up, and there are some that do. But in general, Charlie, if you talk about the limits, those come from within. Because even as I said, the Pope knows there are some things he can't change. He can't change the Ten Commandments, he can't change the eight Beatitudes, he can't change the Gospel, he can't change what counsels has given us. He knows that, so there's sort of a freeing push back, a liberating push back, in that what we call the dispositive faith is itself a limit for us. It would be like the goals or the baselines in baseball games - you can't go beyond those if you're going to play the game, and he knows that.
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