Interview: Artistic Directors Talk About Contemporary Ballet Company Konverjdans

Amy Saunder, Jordan Miller, and Tiffany Mangulabnan are the three co-founding artistic directors of konverjdans (converge/dance), the women-led, Brooklyn-based contemporary ballet company that has been creating and presenting dance in NYC since 2016. The team recently presented its 8th season of their contemporary ballet HYPHA in Brooklyn, NY which showcased performances choreographed by each of the women. We spoke to the three artistic directors about this year’s HYPHA, their influences, and what we can look forward to next.

Tell us about your dance background. How did you get into it and why? 

AMY: I started dancing when I was around three years old and although I didn’t fully know why I loved it so much, I suspect it was because I had an obsession with garden fairies and thought that being a ballerina was perhaps the closest thing to being a fairy that I could think of. I didn’t take it seriously until I was a teenager when my parents supported me through some intense ballet training, including letting me move to North Carolina to attend a boarding arts high school (UNCSA). After graduating from high school I went through various trainee and apprentice

I started dancing when I was around three years old and although I didn’t fully know why I loved it so much, I suspect it was because I had an obsession with garden fairies and thought that being a ballerina was perhaps the closest thing to being a fairy that I could think of. I didn’t take it seriously until I was a teenager when my parents supported me through some intense ballet training, including letting me move to North Carolina to attend a boarding arts high school (UNCSA). After graduating from high school I went through various trainee and apprentice programs before landing my first corps de ballet contract at The Suzanne Farrell Ballet, where I was lucky enough to perform numerous Balanchine works at The Kennedy Center. When I was in my early twenties I moved to New York and became a freelance dancer with companies such as Pigeonwing Dance, Battery Dance, Indelible Dance, MorDance, Gleich Dances, and Ballet Next, which is where I met Jordan and Tiffany!

JORDAN: I was always making up dances with my sister or dancing around the house as a little kid. Once I started dance classes, at just two years old, that was it— dance became my everything, and my family supported me the whole way. 

I grew up as a competition kid and trained in tap, jazz, ballet, and more, and loved learning so many different styles of dance. Around 8th grade, I shifted my focus to ballet and made it my goal to become a professional dancer. I trained with Beth McLeish at the New American Youth Ballet (now Project Ballet) in Fort Wayne, IN, and got my first pair of pointe shoes— quite late, I was told, at 13-years-old. I joined the younger classes for endless relevés facing the barre and dreaded polkas across the floor and worked hard to catch up. I was thrilled to be accepted to the School of American Ballet’s Winter Program a few years later, and, at 16 years old, I moved to New York. 

As life does in New York, things started to move very fast. I was invited to join the New York City Ballet as an apprentice and danced there until 2015. I did not receive my corps contract, which, let’s be real, left me devastated. I was in a very raw place when I met Amy and Tiffany, but their friendship and support helped me through. I began my work with konverjdans and freelancing at around the same time, and loved the challenge and discovery aspect of both. I finally felt like I could explore my identity as an artist while simultaneously exploring lots of different movement vocabularies. I’m grateful to have worked with Aspen Santa Fe Ballet, Ballet Vero Beach, Caili Quan, Gabrielle Lamb, Julia Gleich, and many more. 

Through all the twists and turns this career has thrown at me— I always try to come back to that little kid who just loved to dance.

TIFFANY: I grew up dancing ballet in Manila, where I was born and raised—ballet being just one of the many things my mom got me into as a kid. The truth is I don’t think I fell in love with it until I was around 13 and I found myself thrown into working with a choreographer who demanded of me the kind of dancing and artistry that only happens when you bare your soul. That was a turning point for me; that’s when I knew I would dance for the rest of my life. 

The Philippine Ballet Theatre school fed into the company, so I climbed the ranks, becoming an apprentice, then a member of the corps de ballet, a demi-soloist, a soloist, and finally a principal by the time I was 20— once again thrown into roles (like Odette/Odile in ‘Swan Lake’) whether I was mature enough for them or not; 20 years old and somehow I had accomplished my girlhood dreams: I was a ballerina at the Philippine Ballet Theatre. And then somehow it wasn’t enough—I wanted to meet a hundred more dancers and choreographers around the world who would challenge me even more, and demand even more of me. That’s how I ended up moving to New York when I was 22, dancing first at BalletNext, where I met Amy and Jordan, and then going on to work with Stuart Loungway’s Terra Firma Dance, Emery LeCrone Dance, Claudia Schreier & Co, Gabrielle Lamb’s Pigeonwing Dance, Gleich Dances, Indelible Dance, Brendan Fernandes, Caili Quan, and The Metropolitan Opera. I’ve lived in New York ever since, happily freelancing as a dancer, creator, teacher and choreographer, constantly meeting hundreds of people who inspire me every day.

Who were some of your influences in the dance industry? 

AMY: There are so many talented artists who have influenced me and changed the way I move, choreograph, and conduct myself in a creative space. The first person who comes to mind is Gabrielle Lamb, who is the artistic director of Pigeonwing Dance. She has a beautiful way of directing dancers that is based on pure curiosity and interest and the way she patiently leads her company without any ego is incredibly inspiring. Another big influence of mine is Caili Quan, who has blossomed as a freelance choreographer nationwide. She isn’t afraid to edit, have fun, and push her dancers to reach their full potential.

JORDAN: I am endlessly influenced by my peers. I love to watch my dancer friends carve their unique paths through the industry and embrace their individuality. I’m inspired by my choreographer and creator friends who continue to find opportunities for their work and strength in their vision. I’m in awe of my director friends who continue to find funding, opportunity, and the energy necessary to keep their independent projects and companies afloat. The ambition, support, and generosity of the artists I meet keep me inspired and curious. I’m incredibly grateful to be part of such a familial corner of the freelance dance community where I always have someone to turn to for advice or inspiration

TIFFANY: My original dance influences—the people who probably made the biggest impacts on my young dancer’s mind and soul, when I was that adolescent girl just figuring out that this was going to be her life—were Filipino-American choreographer Enrico Labayen, Filipina ballerina Katherine Sanchez-Trofeo, and Filipino dancer/choreographer Roniljo Jaynario, who is the current artistic director of the Philippine Ballet Theatre. These three incredible artists were the first to ever teach and push me to think even beyond technique, beyond rules, beyond “square”-ness — to demand of a 13-year-old girl to “bare her soul”, to move, to dance and to create with expansion and with genuine depth of feeling that, two decades later, I’m still continuing to discover. 

Since moving to NYC, some of my biggest influences have been, as Amy has already mentioned, Gabrielle Lamb, who first showed me the joy and wonder of being endlessly curious and collaborative inside the studio; Caili Quan, who continues to amaze me, whenever I find myself in a studio with her —whether she’s choreographing on me or other dancers—with her quirky, quick, and incredibly musical and sensual sense of movement; Emery LeCrone; Julia Gleich; Robin Cantrell; and my best friends and co-directors, Amy and Jordan.

How did the Brooklyn-based contemporary ballet company Konverjdans first come about? What was the inspiration behind it? 

AMY: konverjdans came about very naturally and organically. In the beginning, it felt like the three of us were starting a casual band together. We are all best friends and we just wanted to make art together and bring in our other incredibly talented artist friends who live in New York City to join us in these creations. One of our first performances ever was in the basement of a bar in the Lower East Side and it felt like the perfect place to start. From there we started bringing in more collaborators, performing in bigger spaces, and gradually blossomed into the company we are today!

JORDAN: It all began very naively, without the intention of starting a dance company. The three of us were best friends who loved working together and felt we had a connection in the studio worth exploring, so we built a space where we could do so. As we continued dancing and creating together and, most importantly, as we continued collaborating with different artists, konverjdans grew into something so much bigger than just the three of us. We’re an ever-expanding, ever-growing community of artists that continues to find inspiration and identity as we meet new people and follow our interests. Every artist we’ve ever worked with has brought a unique perspective to the company that has helped us grow and shape the organization.

TIFFANY: I think Amy and Jordan have already articulated it pretty well—the almost accidental, serendipitous way that we first came together. I’ll only add that in the first few months of creating together in this new safe space, this community of artists we were building, it became clear that this was a place where we could explore new and nascent ideas, and even where we could fail. I think that’s important to have, especially when you’ve been a dancer your whole life and are just starting to discover what you might have to say choreographically, and creatively, too. 

Your dancers and collaborators come from a varied network. How do you go about finding them and what do you look for in these roles? 

AMY: I think we all have a similar vision when it comes to hiring collaborators and are attracted to dancers who are unique, generous, bold, and willing to experiment. But I would say that our number one priority is to have artists who positively contribute to the creative space. We strive to have a working environment that is safe and open and we believe each person in our company plays a pivotal role in maintaining this energy. 

JORDAN: Just as the three of us began, the connection in the studio is the most important thing we look for in our collaborators. We usually begin as friends, or fans or their work, and then alchemize teams of artists based on what we think each project needs. Because our work is so heavily influenced by who is in the room and the energy of the space, we strive to facilitate an environment that is safe and open so our artists can arrive exactly as they are each day. This requires a certain amount of trust, maturity, honesty, respect and professionalism between all of us, as well as good communication and a clear point of view.

This year marks the 8th season of HYPHA. What does that mean to you and can you tell our audience more about the performance itself? 

Amy, Jordan and Tiffany: HYPHA, which premiered in June of this year, was a celebration of our 8th year of creating dance together. It feels surreal that we’ve been able to keep going for this long; we think it’s a testament to our ability to stay malleable and to adapt to all the challenges that have been thrown our way. We feel incredibly lucky for each other’s support on this journey, and every time we wrap up a performance we are reminded that all of the effort and hard work it takes to maintain a dance company is totally worth it. 

The performance itself presented three world premieres choreographed by each of the three of us: Tiffany’s ‘sky-shattered’ with an original piano score performed and composed by Bradley Harris; Jordan’s ‘Carve the Night Swells’, a creature of a piece that has evolved and lived other lives since 2021; and Amy’s epic ‘Buried Giants’ — the latter two featuring original music by Alexis Gideon, and the whole evening performed by the three of us along with our beautiful dancers, Antuan Byers, JoVonna Parks, and Łukasz Zięba, with lighting design by Conor Mulligan and costume design by Reshma Patel-Cline. 

Each piece feels like a glimpse into where we are as individuals now — both creatively and personally — eight years after first starting this company. The three of us are all so different, and our collaborators, as you said, come from such varied backgrounds. As our aesthetics and creative interests change and evolve and go to places we never would have expected, it becomes even more exciting for us to share our ideas and creations with one another and with our audience. 

HYPHA explored a wide variety of themes, stories and styles, from ballet to contemporary, with inspiration from poetry, literature, fantasy, music, nature, and everything in between. We want to keep finding places where our stories intersect; we think this is what makes konverjdans’ work so powerful: whatever it’s about, year after year—and it’s always different—it’s always deeply personal to us. 

We’re ever-growing, ever-expanding, ever-learning, and having performances like HYPHA allows us to converge and share these intimate moments with each other. 

What's next for you all? 

Amy, Jordan and Tiffany: We all stay very busy in the konverjdans off-season, with our individual careers and creative projects, but we’re excited about two upcoming performances this fall.

First, we’re excited to be collaborating with several women of The Metropolitan Opera chorus on a new live performance for Art Bath, an immersive performance salon, which will take place on September 6th and 7th at The Blue Building in Manhattan. (Performances September 6 & 7: www.artbathnyc.com/tickets). 

We’re also thrilled to be bringing back some works from both ‘HYPHA’ and ‘KWENTO’ (our Summer 2022 Season production) for a performance at the Kimball Union Academy in New Hampshire this December.

(Photos courtesy of Joe Raffanti, Sergio Carrasco, and Arnaud Falchier) 

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