Today we are talking to the cultural raconteur, inimitable political commentator and monologue artist Justin Sayre all about the 2012 edition of his variety show, THE MEETING*, a gathering of the I.O.S. International Order Of Sodomites, which returns to The Duplex on Thursday, January 19 at 9:30 PM for a spotlight show dedicated to the one and only Dolly Parton. Much like a modern-day Quentin Crisp who Sayre has saluted in past engagements, Sayre's erudite wit and idiosyncratic views on society have made him one of the hottest names in the downtown experimental theatre scene and in this all-encompassing conversation we discuss his many influences - ranging from Sandra Bernhard to fellow InDepth InterView participant Margaret Cho to Lenny Bruce, Jack Benny, George Carlin and beyond - as well as what we can expect from the upcoming shows in this, THE MEETING*'s third successful year onstage. Additionally, Sayre shares his views on many of the GLBT issues of today and generously defines camp as he sees it - and his "supernatural instinct" for it - as well as gives us a taste of the utterly unique performance style he employs in his shows that is unmistakably all his own. Plus, Justin's takes on the Kardashians, Michelle Bachmann, Rick Santorum, Sarah Palin and much, much more!
Tickets to THE MEETING* hosted by Justin Sayre at The Duplex can be found here.Previous editions of THE MEETING* - including NIGHT OF A THOUSAND JUDYS - are available in podcast form on the official blog here. Night Of A Thousand JustinsPC: Is it true you have the greatest Edie Beale impression in New York?JS: [Laughs.] Well, I just kind of sound like her all the time! I guess we just have similar accents.
PC: This is your third year with THE MEETING* now, correct?JS: Yeah, we are in our third season right now.
PC: Are you familiar with the work of Roslyn Hart, who has also done this column and does a somewhat similar one-person show that largely defies description?JS: Oh, yeah! I know Roslyn. She's great.
PC: How do you look at the downtown theatre scene today versus in the 1960s and 70s? Is what you do with THE MEETING* an extension of that?
JS: I think I would be foolish to say that I wasn't be influenced by it - sure. And, you know, I think that, in a lot of ways, it's a little more difficult to get people in a room than it was before, so… [Laughs.]
PC: Indeed.JS: That makes a great difference. But, what I find - especially in the scene right now - New York is changing so much that we all are having to change with it. We are all trying to find our particular voices - a lot of downtown performers are trying to find their particular voice in a New York that is so rapidly changing. Maybe not changing for the better and maybe not changing for the worse, but it's definitely a different place than it has ever been.
PC: And that is part of what makes New York so great, right?
JS: Yeah - it is. It is.
PC: How long have you lived in the city yourself?JS: I've lived here for ten years.
PC: Have you seen it change significantly in your time?JS: Oh, definitely. Definitely.
PC: Do you think a lot of the new New York has to do with social networking and Twitter and Facebook? Do you participate in any of that yourself?JS: I am on Facebook and Twitter. Maybe I just don't feel I am that fascinating, but if I get one tweet a day I feel like I have made some sort of accomplishment. [Laughs.] But, I don't feel like everything I say should be recorded or passed on to other people, you know? I'm dropping bon mots all the time, so I don't Tweet to its full effect, I'm sure.
PC: Do you consider Sandra Bernhard a pioneer in the field of monologue shows like what you do?
JS: Oh, yeah - Sandra is a huge, huge influence on my work. Not only as a downtown performer, but also as a queer performer.
PC: Sandra broke down a lot of barriers with WITHOUT YOU I'M NOTHING. It really brought downtown to the world.JS: Yeah, I think that Sandra kind of picks up in the great tradition of Jackie Curtis and the Warhol people - she's really just so… [Pause.] I think what Sandra kind of exemplifies - and I'd put her in the same category with
Justin Bond - is this kind of outsider critic.
PC: Totally.JS: She's just so smart and so keyed into not only the downtown culture, but the culture as a whole. I mean, she's writing jokes that are like Voltaire! It's just tremendous.
PC: Sort of like the old Norma Shearer quote, "If you don't have anything nice to say, come and sit next to me."
JS: [Laughs.] Yes. Yes.
PC: THE MEETING* is sort of Sandra Bernhard meets Quentin Crisp meets Helen Lawson from VALLEY OF THE DOLLS. Would you agree? JS: Definitely. I mean, the show is political, but it is also camp - we kind of celebrate all things camp and show the camp in everyday scenarios. I find it so funny that we are overtly serious - everything is done to have a heartfelt effect after the half-hour point. Even the Kardashians! They try to have these moments and I find it just… ridiculous. [Laughs.]
PC: It's true.JS: I just feel like camp is the savior of the day. It just shows you have absurd some of these things are.
PC: Lady Gaga seems to be bringing a lot of camp into culture, as well.JS: Oh, yeah. She definitely is.
PC: I've heard you say that you expected New York to be like it was circa-1946 when you arrived and were in for quite a rude awakening. Could you elaborate on that for me at all?JS: Well, I feel like we live in this hyperbolic type of day - everything is over-the-top and huge and so important. I mean, even the fact that we have Twitter and people feel that we need to know every moment of their lives; these sort of stunning revelations - I find it kind of silly, you know?
PC: As if every word or movement they make matters so much.JS: Yes. I think it's all kind of very funny. But, I think I was really influenced by my grandparents with all the 1940s stuff - I grew up with that stuff. So, because of that, I thought, "Oh, I'll just go to New York and meet
Tennessee Williams at 21 and we'll have a cocktail!" [Pause. Laughs.] Not gonna happen!
PC: Definitely not - alas.JS: I kind of longed for those days, though - even though we were all in the closet then. I talked to an older man - he was about 80 years old - and I asked him how he would ask people if they were gay in the 40s, and, he said that they would say, "Do you have an ear for music?" And, I thought, "Oh, why, how lovely?!" Far better than "Are you a top or a bottom?" I thought that that was a much better question.
PC: What was your biggest theatrical influence growing up? JS: Well, I never went to the theatre until I was involved with it. I saw a lot of
Judy Garland movies, and the 30s and 40s musicals, too. I knew all that music - the big band stuff - growing up. It felt, to me, like a much more elegant time. I think that's what I longed for.
PC: How would you relate Quentin Crisp's influence on you as a raconteur and predominantly solo performer?JS: Well, I think that Quentin kind of follows the line of
Oscar Wilde and Michael McLemore - people who could just tell a story and tell it with a real sense of - again - elegance and dash. He was so brilliantly unique. If anything, I try to have their influence on me be, "Tell this from your point of view. What you are noticing is part of your unique humor." So, if anything, that is what I try to do in the show - I try to present my take on it all.
PC: How interesting.JS: It's like, "I'm 30 and I'm homosexual and I'm a little camp in my day-to-day life - and, I talk like Edie Beale - so, I think I have a unique perspective on quite a few things."
PC: You make your art out of yourself.JS: I try to bring that into everything. When I talk about someone like Rick Santorum, I say, "Ugh, those vests look terrible! I wish he would change that!" I mean, I don't listen to a word he says, but, Jesus, someone buy him a vest that fits! [Laughs.]
PC: What do you think about Michelle Bachmann announcing she will not be continuing to campaign to be a part of the Republican primaries?JS: Aww, I'm going to miss her! I just love a good lunatic in politics - especially one that is kind of self-admitted; someone that is just so bizarre. I mean, I didn't like Palin because I thought she was actually dangerous - and knew how to handle firearms from a helicopter, which scared me. [Laughs.]
PC: It is a pretty scary thought.
JS: But, Michelle - I kind of thought she was harmless; living in that loveless marriage with that husband of hers. What she said was horrible, but she was entertaining. I also think that when people say that gay people are ruining the world, it usually happens when I am lounging around the apartment at home in shorts - I'm like, "Really? Me? I'm doing it today? I haven't even taken out the garbage yet, so I don't know how I am contributing to the world's decay."
PC: Do you find that people in general are more aware and accepting of GLBT individuals than they were even ten years ago when you arrived in New York? It does not seem as big an issue for this generation, to say the least.JS: Yeah, I think there is. I think that what is amazing to me, now, is that, when I first moved to New York, it was in the first years that people had stopped dying in huge numbers from AIDS and I think that so many of the gay people that I talked to were just exhausted - like they had been through a war.
PC: They had.JS: Yes, they really had. As young people, we didn't know about all of the history and the people that had come before us. Now, I feel like there is such a resurgence of young, queer artists and gay people who are reaching back and talking about people like Charles Ludlum and Jackie Curtis and Holly Woodlong. There is such a resurgence of queer art that I think it is really a marvelous time in New York. It's difficult, but it's really a marvelous time.
PC: GLEE has made a lot of leeway insofar as the way a lot of America looks at the LGBT community - hasn't it?JS: Well, I believe that GLEE does a lot of wonderful things. I appreciate that it is there. But, I think that what has always been a wonderful thing about gay culture is that we were kind of making up as it went along and we didn't have to be the mainstream - we were able to think outside the box. And, I worry sometimes that it all becomes too mainstream. You know, all of a sudden, because we fought for marriage equality now we all have to get married. I didn't know that was in the contract! [Laughs.]
PC: Do you feel that New York legalizing gay marriage is a step in the right direction toward acceptance, though?JS: Of course, I feel all people should be treated the same, legally. I'm all for equality. But, I don't know that I ever have wanted it for myself. I know people that are very happy and in committed relationships with their husbands and all that business. I kind of feel like the world is open to a lot of different relationships and I think we should really explore that rather than falling into something that 50% of people don't really get into and like.
PC: It seems the transgender community seems to be under fire much like the gay community was in the last decade or two. How does that play into how you view culture today?JS: Well, I have a lot of friends in the trans community and I admire a lot of people who are trans. It's kind of a new frontier in human evolution - to not believe in a gender binary world; which I appreciate. I think it's very brave. It's often a discussion we don't often have - even in the gay community - because it is all sort of foreign to us. But, when you catch the hallmarks of what trans people are saying - identifying with a spiritual sense and not being defined by one side of the coin - I think that we all have, in our way, experienced something like that.
PC: Undoubtedly.JS: You know, everybody has a feminine and a masculine side and sometimes they just don't tend to match up. [Pause.] I think it's a really brave new world and I am excited by it. There are a lot of trans artists and trans people that I really admire and that I hold up as some of the best people in the world.
PC: Justin Bond is one of the forbearers of the trans community and created the new pronoun for them, Mx as opposed to Ms., Mr. and Mrs.. What do you think of him? It's quite revolutionary what he is doing, I think.JS: Oh, yeah. I mean, Justin has been a huge, huge influence on my work - always. He was actually one of the big reasons I got into the downtown scene, seeing him as Kiki.
PC: In Kiki & Herb, of course. Did you see their famous Carnegie Hall concert?JS: Oh, yeah! I used to follow them - if they were at Joe's [Pub], I would see every show. I am friendly with both of them now, too. I was so mesmerized by them. It was such an amazing collaboration. I think that Justin, in his way, is not only creating a dialogue about trans issues, but is also helping relate an understanding of trans that is revolutionary in its honesty.
PC: And controversial, as well - as many trans issues seem to be for many people.JS: You know, I watched BECOMING CHAZ and I thought, "Well, I've already heard all this!" [Laughs.] But, I feel like that, with Justin, because he is such an artist and such a creator - it's so fascinating to me that she has created something out of his story and reinvented herself in a brand new way. It seems like it was like that from the beginning.
PC: Destiny.JS: Yeah, I mean, I look at Justin now and I think, "Oh, well, this is just you!" The acceptance and the joy that I feel every time I see Justin is just amazing. I think she is really at the forefront as far as what people are feeling and she is really giving a voice to people that haven't been spoken for before and I admire her all the more for that.
PC: You grew up in quite a small town yourself, correct?JS: Forty Fort, Pennsylvania. Yeah.
PC: Have any people from your past come to see your show and were they perhaps surprised at any of the content of THE MEETING*?JS: No. My mother and father came to the very first benefit we did.
PC: What was their reaction?JS: They weren't really shocked. I mean, my father was a little shocked when someone dragged him onstage and humped him, but they had a good time. [Laughs.]
PC: I bet!JS: You know, the one comment that has been brought to me over and over again is: for how gay the show is, it really crosses over so many boundaries. I've had so many straight people come to the show and love it.
PC: So, the show is applicable and open to anyone of any sexual persuasion over 21, in your opinion?JS: Oh, absolutely! We have a lot of straight people who come to the show - people from all different realms. It's basically a celebration of camp and how it relates to people's lives. As an artist, I have always thought of that Diane Arbus quote that the more specific you make it, the more general it appears.
PC: A brilliant quote.JS: So, yeah, we have sort of zeroed in on this camp, queer little world, but, in doing that, we touch on lots of different issues. I feel like, more and more, people are relating to the show and getting something out of it. I mean, I have had straight guys come to the show who I would be afraid to approach on the street just love it! Love it.
PC: How do you manage to devise the show every month? JS: Well, we always have a theme and then I write some skits accordingly. I do read the newspaper and clip things every week and put it in a book so that I have material for the end of the show - at the end we always do New Rulings From The Board.
PC: Such as?JS: Oh, it's all about what's going on in politics and things like that, usually. I try to figure out how to best lampoon them. [Laughs.]
PC: What's a potential ruling we can look forward to on Thursday?JS: Oh, I can't tell you yet because I always wait until the very last second. Something dastardly may happen between now and then so I will just have to comment on that.
PC: Let's hope there is no Bachmann/Palin 2016 ticket announced by Thursday, then!JS: Oh, my God! [Pause. Deadpan.] It's like the two girls in THE SHINING running for president.
PC: That is hilarious! You certainly picked the perfect time to do a Dolly Parton tribute at THE MEETING* given that her new movie musical opens soon, A JOYFUL NOISE.JS: Well, it's most because it's January and her birthday is in January - we always try to line them up with their birthdays - so it's more a coincidence than anything.
PC: Have you seen anything in New York recently that you really responded to?JS: Downtown, I think that Dan Fishback's show THIRTYNOTHING was a wonderful piece. Dan is a performance artist and friend and the show is about him turning thirty this year - and so did AIDS. So, it's about growing up in the wake of the disease. It was just wonderful. It was at Dixon Place.
PC: Are there any other solo performers with shows right now you enjoy?JS: I am going to see
Jackie Hoffmann's 50th birthday concert. I love her.
PC: You two have performed together before, as well. Hasn't she appeared in THE MEETING*?JS: Yes. Jackie did NIGHT OF A THOUSAND JUDYS last year.
PC: What do you enjoy most about working with her?JS: Oh, Jackie is just a great personality. I think that she sort of falls into that
Sandra Bernhard category, too - she just lays it down and tells some truths. I think we need more of those people.
PC: I agree.JS: Plus, she's just brilliant - she writes so much material and all of her own songs. I always admire the things she says. I also think that if you are looking for something fun to see in New York you should see SILENCE!
PC: The SILENCE OF THE LAMBS musical parody.JS:
Jenn Harris is the
Carol Burnett of downtown. She is amazing.
PC: Do you think you are continuing on in the tradition of Quentin Crisp and Ludlum and Bernhard or you are your own man?JS: I think I am continuing on i n that tradition. But, also, I learned so much about comedy and humor from people like
Jack Benny and
Jackie Gleason and George Carlin. I would watch them as a kid and take notes about how jokes were made and how to take pauses and things like that. So, in a way, I feel like I cast the net wide and caught - devoured - as much as I could. If you ask me you I admire jokes-wise, I would say that
Jack Benny taught me everything I know about how to tell a joke and take a pause. So, that's who I definitely go back to time and time again.
PC: I've heard it said that both the work of Harold Pinter and all of comedy finds its genius in the pauses.JS: Oh, really? I think I like that.
PC: A number of great comedians have done this column, so I was curious what you thought about the queen of them all: Joan Rivers?JS: Oh, wow! She's tremendous. I have a picture of Joan that is right above my desk that says, "Whatever you do today - whatever you accomplish -
Joan Rivers has done more." [Big Laugh.]
PC: It's so true, though!JS: Her genius for comedy… she's just the best. The very best. Her work ethic? I admire it enormously. She just works constantly and gets so much done.
PC: She is always on.JS: Always! Unbelievably so.
PC: What do you think of another fellow InDepth InterView participant, Margaret Cho?
JS: Oh, I love her! She's really pushing a lot of boundaries. I think she really falls into that
Lenny Bruce category of performer or comedian. So pointed, so political, so sharp - so smart.
PC: Will there be any music in the show on Thursday? JS: Oh, yes - we always have musical guests. This Thursday we are doing Dolly songs. Plus, there are some sketches and games. It will really be a marvelous time.
PC: A little "Jolene" and "I Will Always Love You"?JS: Of course! Of course.
PC: What is your favorite Dolly film?JS: I am a 9-TO-5 lover.
PC: I think BEST LITTLE WHOREHOUSE IN TEXAS is mine - if only just because of the songs.JS: Oh, well, I love that, too, of course! For some reason, "A Hard Candy Christmas" always follows me through life, I have found - for some strange reason. [Laughs.]
PC: Did you have a nice Christmas yourself?JS: Yes. Yes, I did! I had a very nice Christmas.
PC: How would you define the term camp, today, in 2012?JS: I think camp is writing or performing with a sense of exaggeration or hyperbole that absolutely points to something true - some truth about society. It's about blowing things up - it's all life or death in scale.
PC: Haven't we all felt like screaming "Neely O'Hara!" in an alley at some point?JS: Yes! [Laughs.] Yes. Believe me. We have. I might do so myself after the next show… [Laughs.]
PC: In a twist: define collaboration in terms of your solo shows. JS: Well, to be honest, I think that the main collaboration for me is with the audience.
PC: Of course.JS: You know, so much of my comedy is about them responding and listening. So, I always ask the audience to sort of collaborate with me to make this event happen. I mean, we always have guests, too, but I think that, ultimately, my most important collaborator for this show is always the audience. What they bring - they bring the energy; they bring the knowledge; they bring the joy; I feed off of that and, hopefully, give something back to them. So, if I have any collaborator it is them.
PC: What's next?JS: Well, next month we are doing Judy Blume, the young adult writer.
PC: The author of ARE YOU THERE, GOD, IT'S ME, MARGARET?, among othersJS: Yes. Exactly. Then, in April, I have some shorts and things that I have written coming in. Skits, monologues and things like that. In June, we do the NIGHT OF A THOUSAND JUDYS benefit again at Joe's Pub. We have a great line-up for that.
PC: So, Thursday's THE MEETING* is about an hour and change? Are tickets still available?JS: Yep, the show is about an hour or so - and tickets are only $10! Bring a friend!
PC: I wish you all the very, very best, Justin! Break a leg on Thursday! This was fabulous.JS: This was fantastic. Thank you so much, Pat. Bye bye.
