Interview: Peter Krantz, Jesse Dwyre, & George Masswohl on OUTLAW at The Rose Studio

An authentic Western full of twists and turns from the comedy genius of Norm Foster. Giddy-up into The Rose Studio for The Foster Festival’s thrilling production of OUTLAW.

Accused of murder and a long way from home, a young Canadian homesteader has only his wits to defend himself, as he turns the law of the land – and the men hell-bent on enforcing it – upside down. 

BroadwayWorld caught up with Peter Krantz, Jesse Dwyre, and George Masswohl to talk about bringing this show to Brampton ahead of opening night!

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How do you approach the comedic elements in a Western setting like in Outlaw?

Peter: I try and do the play as the playwright intends. In other words, I approach comedic elements much like I would tragic elements, trying to find the truth within the scene. As far as it being a Western setting makes no difference to how I would approach it.

Jesse: I think the most authentic laughter comes from surprise and a good deal of the humor in OUTLAW is a situational comedy. A lot of the time these characters don't act the way you might expect. My character, Bob, is essentially a prisoner for the entire show -and without giving too much away, he breaks the rules and doesn't always act like a prisoner should. Whether it's his desperation, his will to live, his inexperience or the fact that he is a fish out of water 2000 miles from home, most of the comedy Norm Foster has given us rises from unexpected reactions to our extreme situations. The cowboy lingo is a whole other element that Norm has beautifully crafted - and those turns of phrase are just marvelous. Just say it clearly and the audience responds. 

George: Norm always does an excellent job of setting up the comedy. It’s simply a matter of allowing his cadence to settle in. So, really, just staying out of the way in terms of trying to add anything.

Given that the play is set in 1871, how did you prepare to accurately portray the time period and setting?

Peter: This is perhaps a question for the designer of the production, but for an actor to try and portray a time period isn’t really his job. People are people, no matter when they lived. That said, I watched a few classic western movies, that I thought might give me an insight as to grooming and facial hair that may be closer to the time period. Both the Magnificent 7 movies, classic and recent, and Mcabe and Mrs Miller were helpful.

Jesse: Norm is both effusive and very specific in his wording, so I wanted to attach my own set of personalized images to this story. I love the historical research part of theatre, so I started with looking up old maps and paintings of the late 1800s. As my prep continued, I found it helpful to work through 5 or 10 page sections (doing all the actor stuff, breaking down the arguments, the rhetoric, getting used to Norms style of cowboy - speak) but I began matching old paintings and pictures of cattle drives, cowboys, saloons, guns, canyons etc t the script. I printed all this stuff out and stuck them up on the wall. By the time I was through the 96 page script- my office wall was plastered in hundreds of cowboy images inspired by Norms words. The maps and old Almanacs were the most fascinating because geography plays a huge part in the plot, so I started tracking each scene topographically to get a real sense of the land, time and place. 

George: Again, Norm has provided the lingo that helps to establish time and place. Add in period appropriate western wear, and boom - you’re in 1871!

How do you think the main character's Canadian background influences his actions and reactions throughout the story?

Peter: Bob Hicks comes from Manitoba. It was a part of Canada that was of course influenced by the British form of Parliamentary Democracy, very different from the American system. We in Canada had abolished slavery by the first half of the 1800 century, and of course we were well aware of the situation with the “Underground Railroad” to Canada of slaves from America, and eventually the civil war. Also, the “wild west” wasn’t really a reality for us Canadians, and we had a very strong police force in the RCMP, and so the gun culture that formed in the States wasn’t as problematic here.

Jesse: Well, it is my sense that the playwright has certainly taken some 'modern Canadian-isms' that we all like to poke fun at and dropped them into a wild west setting- which in itself is quite humorous. In reality, I'm not so sure that the Canadian frontier wasn't as violent as the states. We certainly had a smaller population in comparison to places like Kansas or Fort Worth, so with Bob being from a tiny little homestead up in Rat Creek Manitoba, it seems to me that he is a bit more wide eyed, less experienced than all the American cowboys he encounters, most of whom are veterans of the recent Civil war. Norm also focuses on the importance of education in this show. It seems that the characters who have shunned education certainly have some stunted behavioural patterns. We see cultural clashes especially when the old idea of an eye for an eye meets Bob's more ordered belief in innocence until proven guilty and these are fights that we can still see in todays political landscape. So, in the show we get ask the audience with; what is truth? What are the facts? Do they matter? Shouldn't we give folks a shot to explain themselves before we condemn them? In the end- everything Bob does seems to come from his wholesome, honest, hardworking prairie boy upbringing.

George: This play addresses some of the major cultural and socio-political differences many Canadians feel exist between us and our cousins to the south. Bob Hicks’ Canadian prairie value system makes him a fish out of water in the wild American west.

Outlaw involves serious themes like murder and law enforcement, alongside comedy. How do you balance these contrasting elements in your performance?

Peter: As I stated above, there is no real contrast for me when I approach comedy and serious drama. I try to remain truthful to the intent of the playwright, and consequently my character. If the writing is funny and I am in the moment on stage, acting truthfully, hopefully the audience laughs, but if the next moment is deadly serious, I remain true to the play and character by simply staying in the moment.

Jesse: Well, we just play the moments for real. In no way are we making light of murder or policing or anything like that, but this story is fiction and at its heart it is a murder mystery wrapped in a Western. On the first day of rehearsals, our director Jim Mezon said; "I dont care that these guys are cowboys. I dont really care about that at all. It isn't interesting- to walk on stage and just pretend we are all cowboys... What is interesting is the relationships that develop between these guys and how those relationships change, grow, shift, disintegrate...etc...that's what we're aiming to do here.' So, serious themes like murder, law enforcement, slavery, war, thievery, adultery and the prospect of dying aren't flippantly added. We play them for real and consider them as elements that push our characters' relationships into territory that is hopefully engaging and interesting. 

George: Again, that balance already exists in the script Norm wrote. As one of the actors, my job is to give that script life - to make it 3 dimensional.

Norm Foster often infuses his plays with humor that reveals deeper truths about the human condition. What, in your opinion, in Outlaw particularly embodies this?

Peter: There are many themes in Outlaw that reverberate today. Revenge, false imprisonment, infidelity, Christian faith. These are all experienced by the characters in different ways, and help to illuminate the many sides of these issues, and being human. For example Bob Hicks is a religious man who believes God will save him, whereas Will Vanhorne doesn’t believe in God at all, but in each man’s responsibility to himself.

Jesse: The way I see Bob Hicks' journey is a bit like walking through his own personal Valley of the Shadows. He is a religious man so I think the biblical reference is apt. Underneath it all , I think that Norm has written a show that looks at secrets that you dont want to tell. And, like so many Westerns, this story deals with shame. There may be some things that we have done in life that we all want to forget, there may be some words we wished we never uttered, there may be some memories of past experiences that still crawl up from the recesses of our memory when we lay our head down. I think this play is about how to move forward knowing that even if we do our best to walk on the sunny side, we still carry the shadowy things with us- it's part of being human.

George: This one deals with a number of issues: Death and dying; racism and exploitation; gun culture; crime and punishment; loneliness and heartache, to name a few. Sounds like a comedy, doesn’t it?

How does this play's portrayal of the "days when guns were the law" affect your understanding and portrayal of your character's choices and motivations?

Peter: As the Sheriff I would be fully aware of the life and death struggle in the wild west. Not a lot of time for “due process” and trials. My motivation is simple. Survive as best I can. If that means skirting some basic human rights, so be it. It’s an “eye for an eye” kind or world, but also one, as I state in the prologue, where “every man gets whats coming to him”.

Jesse: To be honest, I'm not sure it would have been possible to be a gunless cowboy in 1871. Even just from the threat of wildlife and animals alone! That being said, leave it to the brilliance of Norm Foster to write a gunless cowboy who wields his words as weapons and defends himself to the end. And that's just what it is - my character doesn't rely on brute strength, or intimidation or money to get along in life, he relies on his thoughts and ideas; he uses his arguments to try to free himself. There is true goodness in Bob. Instead of accusing, he befriends. Instead of insulting, he finds compassion; instead of running away he speaks his truth and stands his ground. That isn't to say he doesn't have flaws. He drinks to excess (more than once); he gets angry, he is sometimes too bold, he is sometimes overly emotional, but in the days that guns were law , Bob ultimately encourages all the other characters to question their way of thinking and to consider stop doing destructive things. The Bob Hicks I have created is a cowboy who doesn't shoot from the hip- he shoots from the heart and I think we need a bit more of that these days. 

George: The gun is always there. In anything one says or does, the gun is always present. That presence affects everything, from the way one walks to the way one communicates with others. The gun, and its potential, are ever-present.

What challenges did you face in bringing the authentic western elements to life on stage, and how did you overcome them?

Peter: I had to grow facial hair, which isn’t easy for me as I don’t really grow much of a beard, but my moustache has been a work in progress, and one that I am pretty proud of. Also I wanted to sound from the mid-west and so I looked back on my dialect work from many years at the Shaw Festival, for that more American sound.

Jesse: I was astounded at how quick my natural - modern - rhythm was. I'd just come off a very fast paced, brand new play at Tarragon and the gear shift into the slower more pensive pace was a huge one. Even through the first few previews- I have been adjusting my own internal rhythms of movement, speech and breath - to find that unique rhythms that Norm's story dictates and combine it with the dangerous nocturnal tone that our director Jim Mezon so deftly has nudged us towards. Think of tired horses plodding down the trail. The constant dust, the wind, where you havent showered for weeks, where the sun is hot, the nights are cold and dangerous. When you are hungry or worried, where you have no contact with loved ones who are far away. When I think of how long it took to do things back then, the natural rhythms of the story really started to hit home. Then, once Jim Mezon played the music he had chosen as our theme--- it all made sense. So the first few days, for me, were like.. Ok. Sloooooow down, get your head out of the city boy.....you're on the trails now. There ain't nowhere else to go.

George: Much of the atmosphere which pervades this production is created sonically by the director and various designers. Our set is a simple one, but evocative. I think the authenticity comes from committing to the reality we’ve created and living in it fully for the couple of hours we spend there each performance. 

Can you talk about a scene in Outlaw that you found particularly challenging or rewarding to perform, and why?

Peter: The final scene is the hardest and most rewarding. I can’t say too much more about it without giving away the plot, but let’s just say it has gun’s, girls, and some roping to boot.

Jesse: Westerns are so often done on film and they are such a familiar and beloved form of storytelling. I haven't seen them done on stage very often, so it's really special to put this show on stage. The audience are right there with us- and some nights it feels like we are in Kansas 1871. The venue is authentic and incredible. Also, my cast mates are wonderfully experienced, generous actors. I adore them all- we support each other, but we also push each other and that dynamic grows each night. We can feel it and because I am onstage for every minute of the show- I sense our chemistry morph and solidify on a nightly basis. On the topic of growth I wantbto add that, overall, it feels like if things keep going in the direction they are, the Foster Festival could become a major force in the years to come - and I'm talking about growing into some kind deeply established repertory Festival here in Niagara. I truly hope so, because with some of the challenges that they overcame this year - if any one can do it - Emily Oriold and her Team certainly have the enterprise. You know, Norms plays deserve more recognition and so the growth of the organization is palpable this year- the Festival wants to become bigger - it is on the precipice so hopefully even more funding and financial support comes to allow us get to the next level. For the moment, I hope that OUTLAW brings more folks to the barn to see what us cowboys are up too, cause I love going to work on the ranch everyday- I mean who doesn't love cowboys?

George: When things are crackling and the pace is bang on, Norm’s writing really shines. That’s when it’s at its most rewarding.

Why should audiences come and see "Outlaw?"

Peter: George Masswohl, Matthew Olver, Jesse Dwyre, three really good actors. Jim Mezon, one of Canada’s best stage actor/directors. Peter Hartwell, one of Canada’s best stage designers, and of course Norm Foster, one of Canada’s best playwrights. Outlaw is one of Norm’s classic plays, that has not only his signature humour with heart, but one other thing that make it a bit different. A soul. A belief that there is good and bad in this world, but the good almost always wins eventually.

Jesse: I always want to make sure we get off to a good start. Kicking off the show properly is incredibly important to me. My aim is to really let the audience settle into the journey we are taking. Aside from the opening, I am a prisoner in this show and what we call the hanging' rock requires some true concentration and stamina. I have 'trained' as best I can for it and if you aren't sure what I mean ... well you may have to come check it out.

George: It’s one of Norm’s most interesting plays, featuring 4 (well, at least 3) very fine actors, directed by the legendary Jim Mezon in a really cool space.