Interview: Chris Lanceley and Henry Shields on Playing Chris Bean on Both Sides of the Pond in the GOES WRONG World

Chris Bean, the hapless,newly-appointed director of Cornley Polytechnic’s Drama Society is a pivotal role in both The Play That Goes Wrong and Peter Pan Goes Wrong. 

Henry Shields has been a member of Mischief Theatre since 2009 who co-wrote The Play That Goes Wrong and was the original Chris Bean in London. He is currently playing Chris in Peter Pan Goes Wrong at the Ethel Barrymore Theatre in New York. 

Original Off-Broadway cast member Chris Lanceley, who first played Jonathan in The Play That Goes Wrong, is also currently playing Chris Bean at New World Stages.

BroadwayWorld UK spoke to Chris and Henry about what it is like to be playing the same role in two different shows in New York, only three blocks away from each other. We discussed how they have grown with the role, why Chris Bean may be the most tragic character in the Cornley Drama Society and the differences between British and American audiences.

---

How would you describe your character and their role within your respective shows? 

Chris: It's interesting. For me, he's someone who desperately needs a win at this particular moment in time, and he has chosen this show to be his win. It's very important to him and his role within the show, and that translates into him being the driving force of keeping the show together. Because this is so important to him that every time something goes wrong, he can control the people on stage with him, he can become that driving force for getting to the end. 

Henry: I think that's a good answer. Chris, structurally, functionally, he's definitely an engine and an anchor of the show - his role is to be quite good in it. He often gives himself the biggest part and does it well, and he's the straighter actor in the show around which all the chaos happens. So he's in the middle of it all, letting the audience see a version of what the show could have been. And he's there to provide the counter-performance to all the terrible performances everybody else gives. And as a character, emotionally, I think that's a nice description of him. He's just a very sad man. [Laughs] I always give them the most tragic backstory I could think of.

Chris: I do the same thing! [Laughs] Poor guy. 

Chris: It's interesting you mentioned that he's quite good because I've found the same thing. When I'm allowed to have moments of murder mystery, I want Chris to be an actual good actor because I think it adds to the tragedy of things around him not going as well. His competence just makes that chasm between what he has to put up with onstage even greater.

Henry: Yeah, it makes it sadder, doesn't it? It could have been quite good. There's a world in which it was a good show.

Chris: Sometimes, I feel like it sets an example to the other actors on stage. Sometimes I manage to get our Max to actually perform well in moments because I'm doing fairly well opposite him!

What has it been like bringing the Goes Wrong shows to American audiences as you are both British actors? 

Henry: Are you British, Chris?

Chris: I was born in Liverpool and I moved here when I was 21, so most of my career's been here. So I suppose you probably have more experience of having audiences of the same show on both sides of the Atlantic.

Henry: It's been very interesting! When we did The Play That Goes Wrong here six years ago, the general feeling was that it's audiences reacting very much the same way they do in the UK, if anything, slightly more enthusiastically. That was the only difference, that people tend to be a bit more warm and up for a night out.

This time, we've all noticed a lot of difference. I think it's because of the show, because it's Peter Pan. The audience are coming from a different place because people know Peter Pan here, and they know it in a different way to the way British audiences know Peter Pan. In the UK, Peter Pan is a pantomime; it's only performed at Christmas. It’s this very silly thing that's quite camp and over the top, not taken very seriously. Whereas here, it's considered more of a play and it's done year-round, and there are straight productions of it that people go to and that's more the way that it's seen. So that's really changed the way audiences behave in certain things. Like the audiences are ahead of us with the “I believe in fairies,” they're way ahead of us with that whole joke - where we try to subvert it and cleverly do it a different way, they're way ahead of us. The audience participation stuff - they are not used to booing Captain Hook. And they have to be taught to do that! They have to learn how to do it, and they often quite feel quite uncomfortable with it until they gradually learn that it's okay to get involved. It's okay to shout. All those pantomime tropes that we take for granted in the UK are not things here at all.

Chris: That was really interesting, I hadn't thought about that! I have known that Americans see, Pan differently, but I was thinking about how that might tie into The Play That Goes Wrong. People obviously know what to expect from a murder mystery, but not exactly what to expect from this specific murder mystery - it keeps people leaning in and listening. I think one of the driving parts of this show is if you do the murder mystery well, people tend to want to lean in and pay attention to that as well as all the comedy moments, and you can keep two plays afloat at the same time. With Pan, that's interesting. People have that different perspective on it over here. And you must get a mix of British tourists as well seeing the show.

Henry: We do get British tourists! So often, when there's the bit in the show where we do, “He's behind you,” in the UK, the entire audience as one will shout “He's behind you,” because they all know the trope. Here, no one's heard of that apart from the British people in the audience, so I say “Where's Peter Pan?” and you get one British voice go, “He’s behind you!’

Henry: And the rest of the audience going, “What the hell is that man doing? Why has he just shouted out that he's behind you?”

Chris: [Laughs] Someone did that to me the other week with the ledger. They shouted, “It's behind you!” What do I do with this? I’m the only person who understands pantomime, what are you doing?

Henry: [Laughs] That is a problem with it! It's a really hard line to tread. For you and me, this is hilarious, but for everyone else, this is very confusing.

Have you felt you've had to change any aspects of your performance based on the different audiences?

Henry: I've had to, because same as in The Play That Goes Wrong, there's a lot of audience interaction. There's the whole ledger bit in The Play That Goes Wrong and in Peter Pan, there's a couple of scenes where the audience are encouraged to get involved. And Chris berates the audience - his job is to attack the audience and make fun of them for not being good enough, not taking it seriously enough. That's the joke, essentially. Here, I've experimented a lot with that, and I found that Americans are much more difficult than UK audiences around that.

Henry: Because they will enjoy being berated to a point, and then they won't. [Laughs] British audiences? There is no limit to how far you can go - literally no limit. There's nothing I've ever said to a British audience that's gone badly. I can't go dark enough. I can't be cruel enough. Here, there is a limit. Americans will laugh at themselves to a point and then they will say “No that's mean.”

Chris: [Laughs] I’ve had the same thing!

Henry: If you're just a little bit too mean to them they'll just go, “No, no, no, I don't like that.” There's a line in The Play That Goes Wrong, “Bloody Americans.” I've struggled to get that into Pan. I was doing a bit where I would say, “This is why you don't understand Shakespeare,” I’d go down that route, things like that. It depends audience to audience, but sometimes, they really just go “No, that's not . . . No. We know . . . We know Shakespeare.” [Laughs] It's strange. There’s a similar similar moment in Play, but I guess because you're more the hero-breaking character, they go along with it a bit more, whereas in Pan I'm the villain already, so they're not entirely on my side. They're much more sensitive.

Chris: I found a very similar thing, that you can push it too far - if I get a little carried away and get a little too mean or go a little too specific with certain people . . .  the great thing about our house is that you can see everyone - they’re right on top of you. So I find if I get a little too specific with a couple of people who are acting out, that can shut the rest of the audience up because they think, “Oh, I hope I don't get picked on that specifically!” Or if I'm a little too mean. I do the “Bloody Americans” bit. Sometimes that works, sometimes it doesn't. I've landed on “Bloody Americans, what's wrong with you?” And that feels like it softens it a little bit. But sometimes I'll be saying “Shut up!” And they just will! [Laughs] They'll just behave, which isn't always the goal.

Henry: It’s never the goal. You always want them to push back. British audiences will do that all day long. Americans? Not so much.

What is it that you enjoy about playing this character?

Henry: Do we enjoy it?

Chris: [Laughs] That's a good question! It must be different for you [Henry] because you originated it, but it's difficult. It grates on your brain a little bit, being in that world of desperately wanting something to go well and it not quite going well. I'm someone who's like that anyway - I desperately want things to go well, especially this acting career! I've worked so hard for this and getting my opportunities - I want it to go well. And there's a weird parallel with the character I'm playing, who also wants the same thing for similar reasons, I suppose. So yeah, it can grate on me a little bit and get me down and exhaust me if I'm not careful. But I do find a lot of joy in it as well.

I've been doing the show a long time now. I've played a few different roles, Chris is by far my favourite. And I feel like there is always something new to try and always something new to explore, different ways of doing things. Audiences can vary wildly day to day. I am someone who needs to be stimulated creatively - if I get bored, it's not good for me. And I feel like there's always something new to try with Chris Bean in The Play That Goes Wrong. There's always something different to do, always a creative challenge to work on, always something I can do slightly better. As the run goes on, there's moments that I will lose, and I will wonder why I've lost them, and then re-finding them is just an interesting challenge. I went quite negative at the start of the answer.

Henry: Well, you wait until you hear my answer!

Chris: [Laughs] Matt [Harrington], who played it before me, said the same thing to me. He had a challenge with that side of things, too.

Henry: Yeah, it's no surprise, to be honest. It is known that in a lot of our casts, with a lot of different companies, the shows all over the world, the actor who plays Chris ends up suffering from exhaustion eventually. It is quite a thankless role - you are the butt of every joke. You're very rarely the person getting a laugh - you're the person who the other person is getting a laugh at the expense of. You spend the whole show very tense, and you're working really hard to keep it moving - you are the engine and you are the anchor, you are keeping everything going. But you get very little of the upside that a lot of the other actors get because they get to do all the fun, silly, dicking around. So it can really wear people down.

I've just taken a few shows off here last week because I really hit a wall. I was exhausted, physically and mentally wiped out. That's what happens. It's just that kind of role. It's very, very demanding, especially in Peter Pan. It ends with a minute-long sprint, where I just run on the revolve for a full minute, at full pace. [Laughs] You end every show drenched in sweat. So it's really, really hard work. The upside, the thing that I enjoy about it, and the reason I'm still doing it, is the technical side of it. It's really fun to craft a part very precisely and to get the satisfaction from delivering jokes, delivering beats and things, exactly right, and honing them to the most comedically perfect they can be. In particular, Peter Pan’s opening nursery scene has loads of jokes in it, a lot of jokes for Chris actually, compared to his usual in Play. But there are so many, and they're all really stacked together, and they're all very, very precise. I've never once done them all exactly right in a show because it's just not possible. 

Like there's one where I slip on some water that's been left on stage that I get right once in 10 times. [Laughs] It’s so, so hard to get right! It gets a laugh every day, but sometimes, I hit it perfectly, and it gets a great big laugh. I'm always trying to get that consistency of getting the perfect laugh every time. And that's what keeps me coming back. It appeals to the slightly analytical, probably mildly autistic brain.

Chris: I've often described it as maths. There's very specific and precise beats you have to hit in a certain way. And it's actually quite reassuring that you say that it's hard to hit every single moment precisely in the same way every night. Well, not in the same way, but in the way to get that moment to work every single night. I have the same thing! Those clock moments in The Play That Goes Wrong! [Laughs]. When he takes in the clock, they’re two of my favourite ones! They're interesting. Get slightly off and they don't get the response that you'd expect each time. Yeah, that appeals to me as well. That's the kind of creativity and the challenge that I was referring to. There's always something to chase.

Henry: Exactly. I think I potentially got to the point where I could get through Play hitting every beat because I did 1,500 performances of that show.

Chris: Wow!

Henry: Enough that I really honed it. And now I'm kind of bored with it! [Laughs] I don't really want to go back to doing that show, but I'm a long way off that with Pan. It took me a long time to get that with Play.

Henry, what has it been like seeing people take on the role that you've created?

Henry: It's been really nice. Honestly, the first time that happened was a long time ago now. Must be 10 years ago, when Harry Kershaw took my role in Play That Goes Wrong in the West End - they were our first new cast. And by that point, I'd been doing the show for three years and was completely sick of it, as I'd just mentioned. I’d run out of things to chase, I'd honed every beat, and I was a bit bored a bit. So I was just absolutely thrilled for someone else to be taking over! And I could sit out and watch and enjoy the show. It was a bit of a rest. And since then, it's always been the same way. I've never felt precious about it. I've always just been happy to go “Yeah, someone else take it, do it your own way, do it really well.” I love seeing someone else's take on it. It's always different. I never have any feelings of like, “No, I want to do it. Get out. It's mine!” No.

Chris, what is it like taking on a role that's been played by so many people before?

Chris: I honestly didn't really consider that when I took it over! I've had an interesting journey to the role, anyway. I started off as Jonathan in The Play That Goes Wrong, covering Chris, and then I played Chris on the national tour. And then I came back after Covid playing Jonathan, and then started playing Chris again about a year ago off-Broadway. It's interesting.

When I first started learning the role, I was understudying it, so I was considering Matt Harrington in the role, to an extent. I don't know if this is just something that Mischief passes down in general, I never felt an obligation to fit or follow the form of anything that came before me. I felt that I was allowed to make my own choices, make my own decisions, take the character in my own direction. Obviously, with the directors tailoring that approach as we went, but I never felt like I was being directed into anything anyone had done prior to me, which is really nice. It's nice to have that freedom. It keeps you engaged and keeps you focused, keeps you interested and creatively challenged, when you have a degree of freedom to do what you want. I also think that freedom is important for moments like the ledger bit, where you have that confidence to follow your own instincts. But I think that's kind of credit to Mischief, that even as understudies, as principals, you're never expected to follow anything precisely as it as it came before. I think that's great and that's important. 

Henry: We owe that to our clowning teacher, Mark Bell, really. That's where it all started - learning clowning from him. And one of the principles of clown is that you can't ever really take on someone else's clown. You can't do it. Your clown might be very close to mine, but it will never be the same. If I ever tried to do exactly your clown, it will always be a facsimile. Because real clowning is connected to who you are, personally. If you're doing it right, if you're doing it well, it will be a version of yourself, and no one else can ever do exactly that. So we always encourage people to, within guidelines, find their version of themselves that fits within the show and fits within what the role demands. You can always adjust your clown to get to that place, but it has to come from you.

What advice would you give those who are taking on the role of Chris Bean?

Henry: I don't really give advice! Whenever we get a new Chris Bean, I try to stay out of it. [Laughs] For that exact reason that it's about finding your own path. As soon as someone else is trying to show you the way, you're not connecting to it. You're not coming at it from a personal clowning point of view, you're coming at it from a technical point of view. So my advice is, don't listen to my advice.

Just do good clowning work. It's got to come from you. There are occasionally times when I'll give someone notes on very specific things, like the ledger moment, because it's so technically precise. I'll give people notes for shortcuts, like, “If you want the audience to do this, maybe try doing this, because over 1,000 shows, I learned that this is the way to get it to work.” But for the most part, people need to make their own mistakes and to find whatever path is appropriate for them. 

Chris: My advice would be the advice I ended up falling upon for myself, because I played Chris before the pandemic, came back and played Jonathan for almost a year, and then returned to Chris. And I had a really hard time finding the role again after a year as Jonathan - it took me a little while to get back into it. And I feel like now, after this conversation, to some extent I was playing a facsimile of the version of me pre-pandemic on tour playing Chris. I was playing the memory of what I did then and trying to recreate that. I wonder if I came out of it [the pandemic] a slightly different person and that version of Chris from the past, that memory, didn't fit me anymore.

So what I did was I went back to the basics. I went back to what Chris desperately wants from this experience, in each moment, in each scene, what he actually wants to happen. And that informs where I eventually got to and where it started clicking for me again. What I found is that he really just wants the play to go well, desperately. So when I was getting angry on stage at other actors, that's not the play going well! If I'm outwardly breaking character to be pissed off at other people, that's not it. So I realised that my driving force was that. So my advice to myself was to just get back to the basics and rebuild from the ground up of what he actually wants and needs in any given situation. And that makes it real, that makes it attached to you rather than copying a version that I played before or copying someone you might have seen on TV or on the West End five years ago.

Chris is in The Play That Goes Wrong, currently playing at New World Stages

Henry is in Peter Pan Goes Wrong, currently playing at the Ethel Barrymore Theatre