Broadway Bullet Interview: Lipstick on a Pig
By: Michael Gilboe May. 21, 2007
We talk to David Epstein, director of the new play "Lipstick on a Pig."
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You can listen to this interview and many other great features for free on Broadway Bullet vol. 114. Subscribe for free so you don't miss an episode.
Broadway Bullet Interview: David Epstein of Lipstick on a Pig
MG: In the theatre world, and art world, and music, it's often been said: "You can't put lipstick on a pig," but that is exactly what our next director is trying to do. At least The Lipstick on The Pig is actually the name of the play, and we've got director David Epstein here with us. How are you doing?
DE: I'm doing good Michael. How are you?
MG: Good. So, this is kind of a different play, you were saying before we started talking.
DE: Yeah, I was saying earlier that when I first read the play, it seemed very familiar…it's a family play, it's a kitchen play…people coming to terms with the past, but as you continue to read it and read it over and over and start to watch actors doing it, you begin to realize that the language is a lot more in depth and rich than you had originally assumed and what was once a kitchen play, seemed like a little American almost melodrama actually turned into something that felt way more checkovian and checkovish and it really does feel that way where you can interpret it 500 different ways and we can try it 5all those different ways but there only seems to be one way to get each scene right, and that has been something I haven't experienced really since art school, when you were just, back in NYU, just messing around with different forms, and stuff like that, seeing how you can interpret it, but this one really is like, it has to be the way it is. It's kind of amazing. And once you make the discovery, you go oh my god it's so clear, then the next scene almost makes sense, and the next, and of course that's the natural progression of theatre, it's always that way, but with this play it seemed like that in particular.
MG: Now, this is set in a hospital?
DE: Yeah, it's set in a hospital over a period of weeks and there's a number of characters, there's 4 characters, 3 of them are family members, there's a daughter, she's a professor at UCLA and she comes back to her father who is this big sort of grizzly bear of a man…performed by John Farrell is great, got an amazing presence this guy, but all of the performances are great. There's also the brother and the transplant coordinator, and these 3 people in the family, Eaten, AJ, and Blake, they have these sort of dark conversations with each other about the past and they find out all these things about one another and then this transplant coordinator comes in all chipper, and hello we're gonna take your kidney out and it's really fun and it's an interesting dichotomy of sort of like deep, dark scenes that are really rich with a lot of incredible dialogue, really great writing, and then this 50's character who just comes in and is like gonna rub alcohol on people and make them feel good. The more I think of Lipstick on the Pig, the more I fall in love with it, and it's true, the cast and I, everyday we come in with these discoveries, and because we're in love with this script, the process itself has gotten really magical and the magic answer has nothing to do with yes it takes place in a hospital…yes it takes place in a hospital.
MG: I think one of the stories about this that's really interesting, especially given that we're an Internet program here, is how you happened to meet the writer and get this job ,and in fact, I think a lot of directors just wonder how you get a job in general.
DE: Yeah, I still wonder that. I'm amazed in the last year I've landed a couple of jobs, and I don't have representation. I'm out there fielding it on my own and a lot of director friends I have as well are doing the same thing. There's not many agents out there but when it came to Linda the writer I found her online through an actress friend of mine named Kristin Woodburn. She does a lot of horror flicks.
MG: Whore flicks or horror flicks?
DE: Horror. Kristin Woodburn grabs a gun and shoots people with a magnum and says, "Die zombie!" She's a pretty good actress who set me up with this and I was very pleased so I met Linda online and we started talking and we decided to go for lunch in union square and we had some beers and talked, and it turned out we actually had some things in common and had very similar writing styles. In fact, there's a play I had written a few years back called Strange Attractions…was very similar to this about a woman dying in the hospital and family coming to terms with it. The story's been told a million times but, like, how you tell it is sort of what Linda and I connected on and she definitely has a unique style. So we talked and I didn't hear from her for a couple of months and I had given her some script notes about what I think the play should be in order to be better and she was very receptive to that which usually writers are not. Usually writers, they don't want to hear it and when you give them a good line they say: "It was mine, I came up with it." But Linda's been very gracious about all of the creative stuff from the actors to the designers and to the writing and after 6 months I figured I'm not gonna hear from her again, you know I gave her some script notes, who knows? And then she called me up and said: Hey, I'm doing a show in a month," and I said, "Okay, I'll do my best to find as many designers for you as I can," and then we just went from there. But its been kind of amazing, and it's interesting in the theatre one job definitely leads to the next and its just a question of how you get that first job. It took 11 years but once you start getting the jobs people start finding you if you leave the impression that you know what you're doing. You may not necessarily know what you're doing, but as long as you make people think you are…and so I've got Linda totally fooled
MG: So is this a full-time gig for you yet?
DE: Yeah. Well, the directing is taking over…I'm an acting coach and a teacher of writers on the side, so full time as far as I'm concerned. I'm living in the arts I hope that's what you meant
MG: Yes. That's very cool because I was actually meaning to ask: pursuing a career in directing has to be hard because it's so time consuming, even to get the job, a lot of time…even in acting…okay, there's auditions and that does take up a lot of time but I don't think it really quite compares with a director campaigning for the job. So I was kind of curious about how you set up your life to start moving and having the available time to take on what is also often times very low paying jobs
DE: Yeah, often is. What I do is…this is the process that's working for me: I have my own theater company called Invisible City Theater Company downtown and we shift from theater to theater and we rent small spaces like everybody and the work seems to be doing well enough that people who have some sort of power come in and want to expand things or take the plays that I'm doing and make them bigger. So I find that in the downtime between gigs or jobs or looking for work, by simply putting up a production and making sure that the production elements are right and the acting is right, even though everyone's getting paid nothing and it's a dirt cheap production, by taking the time to make sure everything's as professional as it can be seems be the formula for finding people to hire me as a director. I didn't meet Linda that way but I've met other people that way and I feel like if I just keep going with that just keep doing my thing on the side keep and make sure the right people come to see it then I'll always sort of have directing work. But it's like, you can't just choose to be a director you have to make it happen from the ground floor all by yourself--at first impress people, at least in my experience. And that's when jobs will start coming. But its not like the jobs are coming in in a flood every year. There's a couple of great gigs that are coming my way. Last year, I worked with the guy who wrote Mystic River. He hired me to direct his first stage play and that was a wonderful experience. It put us on the map and that was because he came to see our production of Arcadia. Our production of Arcadia was the first showcase production done in New York, so there was kind of some buzz about the show and he came to see it and I think he was pretty much blown away. And so we were in a Manhattan theatre, a very small space and were doing Tom Stoppard's Arcadia with full costumes. It was unbelievable. We had some kahunas when we did that thing, but it turned out well and that's sort of my formula now, just to pick a great show that's really challenging, make sure somebody who you want to come see it that can help you is gonna be there and just pray to god.
MG: Now how much involvement do you have in your shows beyond just the directing? I mean, do you try to get actively involved with helping promote them because Lipstick on the Pig here…you're doing this Off-Off Broadway?
DE: It's Off Broadway.
MG: It's Off Broadway… even still a hard sell kind of these days.
DE: Yeah, what makes it a hard sell is if you don't have a ten-thousand dollar budget for advertising, it rests on your actors and it rests on your designers and anybody who kind of cares about the play. Lipstick on the Pig is a different thing for me in that its an Off Broadway venture and there's a bigger team and there are high caliber actors…I've had to do less, but I wish there was more for me to do but every job is taken care of. But when I'm doing smaller productions, I'm designing sets, I'm putting the sound together. So I'm a little anal retentive and I'm kind of a control freak when it actually is in my court but with Lipstick, it's someone else's production, someone else's show and I'm there to direct it and make sure that falls into place, so I don't wanna step on too many toes, which is sort of a habit of mine, especially when its my own plays. People are like, how come you don't let other people direct your own stuff. I'm like, I don't know, I need to be in charge. And so with Lipstick I want to try to pull back a little bit and just focus on the directing and not turn into a control freak which most directors are, but I'm trying my best to keep my distance from getting on the producers' toes, getting on the set designers' toes …these people all know what they're doing, and sometimes you have a tendency when you're in charge to get so frazzled by the situation that you start to talk down to people and start to take it way more seriously than you should. And the whole thing's supposed to be fun, and I try to remind my actors of that everyday and the designers. And sometimes the producers get upset about things and I say, "Hey, even if we fail miserably, we fail more if we don't have fun now in this process." Long response.
MG: How long has this script been in development? And how long have you been working with the script before you actually started rehearsals?
DE: Linda's been working on it for, I think, a year, and then she brought it to me and we worked on it for 2 months together, and then she went away so I think a yea, and we made the decision to stop making script changes about 3 weeks ago just cuz actors need to memorize their lines and we don't wanna keep changing things…and I think that once the process is done my experience with the original script is that Linda will again go over the original script and tweak it once more especially if there's interest in it and people wanna bring it elsewhere, which I think is possible. It's always good to be hopeful
MG: You wanna mention your actors in the show?
DE: Yeah. I've got Dennis Hearn, who is amazing, a wonderful actor, and Christa Kimlico Jones and John Farrell and Alexis Croucher. They're all giving absolutely amazing performances. It is not an easy play. I came to New York to be an actor 10 years ago and I gave up on that after about 6 years ago, and found that this is easier for me, but when I look at these roles and I see what's required of them to do in an hour and a half, its mesmerizing. And its been a long haul for the 4 of us and it's the kind of thing, if you like watching actors, which is what plays are all about…and about the sets and as much as the set designer wants to believe that, it is about the actors, and these 4 actors absolutely are giving stellar performances where they've made my job easier as a director, and usually its just not that way. Usually, you're pulling teeth and with these guys, it's been a magical journey. It really has been and I know that sounds cheesy, but it's the truth. They're doing just a knockup job if there is such a thing
MG: So what's all the magic information, where do they go, when…?
DE: the show is at the Samuel Beckett Theater at Theatre Row, May 18-June 3. You can go to www.ticketcentral.com. It's gonna be a great show.
MG: well I know this must be a crazy time in the process for you, so I'm glad you were able to find some time to come down and talk with us
DE: Thank you so much for having me Michael
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You can listen to this interview and many other great features for free on Broadway Bullet vol. 114. Subscribe for free so you don't miss an episode.
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