The synthesizers in Les Mis.....

[ljay889]

Yes, another Les Mis thread. Deal with it.

Is there any other recording besides the 2010 25th Anniversary (and now the movie soundtrack) that doesn't include the obnoxious synthesizers in the orchestrations? I find them really cheesy.

[My Oh My]

What synthesizers? It's all in your head.

[DeNada]

The 2008 Dutch recording and the 2011 Spanish recording use the newer orchestrations - I believe the Dutch one isn't the final version but the Spanish one definitely removes as many of the synth sounds as possible.

[Justin D]

But that's what makes it Les Miz. It would be like removing the hand clapping sounds from Phantom (oh wait, that would actually be an improvement)

[best12bars]

I don't like the watered-down versions. It was a pop-opera score originally. Updating it is fine, but don't de-fang it and make it boring.

Oh, wait. They did.

I like the way the score to Chess has been modified over the years. It still has a pop sound to go with the symphonic, but it moved further away from the '80s style. Too bad Les Miz didn't go that route as well.

I thought the orchestrations in the movie were barely audible, but what was heard was completely unmemorable. Removing nearly all the percussion was a mistake, too.

[KirbyCat]

Can someone actually explain the whole thing about the old orchestrations vs. the new ones? Why does everybody get their panties in a bunch about the old John Cameron orchestrations being replaced with the new Christopher Jahnke orchestrations? I know there was an upset about this starting at the 2006 revival, which I never got a chance to see, but I happen to enjoy the 25th Anniversary Concert quite a bit, and the orchestrations there don't bother me at all. Please enlighten me!

[ljay889]

I'm not a Les Mis enthusiast or purist (I'm a Sondheim baby) so I have zero attachment the gaudy original orchestrations.

To me, the most attractive sounding orchestrations that I've heard are on the 2010 Anniversary recording.

[My Oh My]

ljay, I'd be happy to break it all down for you and recommend what's out there based on your needs/interests if you'd do me the small favor of giving me something I can work with?

Right now, all I know is that you have beef with the synthesizer.

But all musicals, even Sondheim musicals, have a keyboard component.

From that, I can deduce what you really have beef with: the keyboard patches used in the original orchestration and not the keyboards.

I can even deduce specifically which patches you don't dig, and since their names aren't universally known, I will provide you with a sample of the gaudy patch you have beef with (played, of course, alongside a full orchestra):

Gaudy Patch: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuFKOfSaJh4

I don't think I have to spell out which one exactly, because it's very prominent in this song, as well as the opening and "Look Down."

By the by, which other patches do you have beef with?

Now apologize to synthesizer. You hurt synthesizer's feelings.

Oh! And what do you think of the very orchestral 10th anniversary concert?

[CarlosAlberto]

^ BWAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!

[The Scorpion]

Personally I love that particular keyboard patch in Les Miz. It gives it a distinctive sound that I've always associated with the show and I think it makes songs like 'Look Down' sound far more exciting than, say, the version at the Albert Hall for the 10th anniversary.

I think the new orchestrations were a lot better in the 25th anniversary tour than the Broadway revival, which was diabolical orchestration-wise IMHO, but I still think some of the most gorgeous moments of the score have been butchered by them. Much missed, for instance, is the string melody that used to be in 'What Have I Done?' (the bit where Valjean goes: "...Yet why did I allow that man...?").

As for Phantom, I really wish someone would tell ALW that reintroducing the claps and the electric guitar in the title song after 22 years of them NOT being in the show was a terrible mistake. Him and his "oh the Phantom is really rock'n'roll" obsession. I'm sure Hal Prince cringes every time he hears it. Compare the Albert Hall recording to the OLC and I still think the title song on the OLC is classier and more haunting. Plus that guitar drowns out the vocalisations at the end. A nice compromise was the orchestrations that were used in the London production *only* between 2004 and 2008, which I thought got the balance between rock and classical just right. Shame they didn't stick with that.

[My Oh My]

Those hand claps are really something, aren't they? XD

Last time I saw Phantom live onstage was at the 3rd national tour's 2nd to last ever performance, the matinee on Halloween, 2010.

I was happy to see a show that brought so much joy in Los Angeles, one last time, and in the way I remembered it the first time I ever saw it in Los Angeles back in 1992.

Even more, that it still looked amazingly magical and not at all dated after so long.

Wish I could've said the same about some of the orchestrations.

I couldn't believe how trainwrecky the title song sounded. Just one, big garbage truck had rolled into the loading dock, it seemed. It pulled me out of the stunning scene before me. That electric guitar annoyingly and distractingly blared to high heaven so terribly at one point, I audibly said "Shhhhhh!!!" much to my dismay. I didn't mean to, but it was like a reflex!

There were moments as bad as that sporadically during the course of the show that day. Phantom is the epitome of a musical that uses a lot of keyboard sounds that will never get dated because they all contribute to the mood and aren't linked in most people's minds to similar sounds from specific decades. That truly was a dumb choice, since Phantom's orchs have always been one of the best parts of seeing it live. It's thrilling.

[ljay889]

I really don't care enough about this topic to have a history lesson 'taught' to me about it. I was only asking a simple question. And yes, that is an example of the "patch" that I don't enjoy. It just sounds very outdated in today's time.

And sure, Sondheim's scores have used synthesizer (Heck, the 1989 revival of Sweeney consisted of just two synthesizers). But none of his scores have "patches" as gaudy or cheesy as those in Les Mis, MAYBE the synthesizer in the original Sunday orchestrations comes close, but I think they are thrilling orchestrations.

[CarlosAlberto]

Chile please...

[ljay889]

[CarlosAlberto]

So that's the new trend for twenty thirteen around here: tacky gifs and creating whole threads for topics "you really don't care enough" about.? Downhill, baby.

[ljay889]

I didn't care for a HISTORY LESSON from the fanatics and purists. I was just looking for a simple answer (which someone nicely gave) whether there were any other recordings without the heavily synthesized "patches."

Anyway, what happened to your avatars, sweetie?

[The Scorpion]

I didn't care for a HISTORY LESSON from the fanatics and purists. I was just looking for a simple answer (which someone nicely gave) whether there were any other recordings without the heavily synthesized "patches."

Guess what? This thread isn't exclusively devoted to talking to you and only you. Scroll up and you will see that KirbyCat asked why some didn't like the new Miz orchestration. Some people discussed why they felt that way, since (surprise!) it's a discussion board.

[ljay889]

OMG!! That makes sense. Thanks. Happy New Year, everyone!!

[CarlosAlberto]

...and the (Broadway)world is now a better place...

*le sigh*

:: group hug ::

[darquegk]

The keyboard sound I truly loathe is the "spaceship sound effect" in the OOBC of "Little Shop" during "The Meek Shall Inherit."

[My Oh My]

Now come now, people. I'm actually grateful for his honesty. If he thinks it's cheesy, who am I to tell him otherwise?

After all, that gaudy keyboard patch he dislikes from the original is practically identical to the one heard in the 25th anniversary concert, the one patch they didn't touch, for the most part, is also the one patch he loaths/hates/Loves/Finds attractive/whatever.

We're all entitled to hypocrisy and we all make mistakes, like fall victim to crafty producers and much ballyhooed reinventions that are really pretentious inversions of stuff already there. =P

No hard feelings.

[trentsketch]

As a synth player who has gotten a lot paying gigs thanks to the HS edition of Les Mis being licensed, I cannot imagine the show without them.

As a fan of good music, I find them incredibly distracting and lazy.

So good when they line my wallet, bad at all other times.

[My Oh My]

I should have mentioned this earlier, just because people tend to first think I'm bitchy or dead serious, for some reason, and not the self-mocking, much more er...playful person I am. :S

But I'm not lecturing anyone, not interested in that. Nor do I have a problem with people not liking what I like; however, I am admittedly anal about the rationale being unsound. But it's cool if you really think those sounds are cheesy. I just have a problem with calling the entire orchestration bad, when only citing one patch out of 128 and ignoring the 22-member completely orchestral nature of the original orchs. How all the attention goes into 2 keyboards that are not audible for the entire three hours is kind of baffling to me, since the rest of the originals have so much to offer and bring me great joy. Ah, well.

So yep, it's OK if you hate me or those patches, just don't say you hate me because I'm mean and that you hate the whole orchestration over one patch! LOL.

[ljay889]

ust don't say you hate me because I'm mean and that you hate the whole orchestration over one patch! LOL.

Lord. I never said I hate the entire thing over one patch. This is why I prefer to stay in the Sondheim cult; most of us were and are receptive/open to the new orchestrations given to his work over the years... (ok, maybe not the 5 piece orchestrations for the Sunday revival). I clearly struck a chord with you, because you keep writing paragraphs and paragraphs over this. Let me like the orchestrations that I like of a show that I'm not even a huge fan of. I never once made a big deal that you hate the new orchestrations.

[StageManager2]

Girls, can't we settle this with pistols?

[CarlosAlberto]

....or synthesizers? LMAO!!!