Downton Abbey vs Up/Down

[Gothampc]

I'm a bit late to the conversation and have just watched Season 1 of Downton Abbey. Has anyone else noticed the similarities in stories between this and Upstairs/Downstairs?

one of the downstairs male staff is gay

the daughter of the upstairs family goes to a political rally which turns violent

two of the downstairs staff become attracted to each other

I'm sure there are more plot similarities when I get into Season 2.

[EricMontreal22]

Do you mean the original Upstairs/Downstairs or do you mean the current incarnation? Or both? Anyway the similarities have been well documented (and arugued), Fellowes himself tried to offset some when Abbey first premiered by aknowledging the old series as a big inspiration. I've only seen the first 3 episode series of the new Up/Down so far, but will watch Seson 2 when PBS airs it (I'd seen, I think, all of the original, great 70s series as a young teen when it reran here after school). Jean Marsh gave several kinda passive agressive interviews complaining that because Downton came before the new Up/Down, people would think they were copying them, when U/D came first, but I think the shows have a seperate enough feel to survive on their own.

(BBC's hilarious Red Nose Day comic sketch with Joanna Lumley and crew last year was called Uptown Downstairs Abbey for a reason).

[Gothampc]

I'm referring to the original Upstairs/Downstairs from the 1970s.

[Gothampc]

Come to think of it, The Grand had a downstairs male that was gay too. Weren't any of the upstairs people gay or was it just the help?

[EricMontreal22]

I actually don't remember a gay character in the original series at all (!).. it was probably 20 years back (scary thought) that I was obsessed with watching it, but as a 12 year old kid I usually glued onto *any* depiction of a gay chjaracter...

Interesting you say that though as the cliche in many Edwardian era British series is all the secretly gay aristocrats as well as those Bridesheady close male relationships at the rich schools.

[Jay Lerner-Z]

And I'm pretty sure he stole/borrowed from other places too - in the first season of Downton, they had a flower contest that Maggie Smith always won, until in a heartwarming twist she actually let someone who deserved it take the prize - I can't remember where, but I am sure I saw that someplace else. Anybody care to tell me I'm right?

[Scripps2]

You're right!

Mrs Miniver.

[Scripps2]

Don't expect any more Upstairs Downstairs - it's just been pulled:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-17811617

Quite rightly too imo - I thought it was atrocious.

[Gothampc]

Eric, you don't remember Baron Klaus von Rimmer? In Season 1 of Up/Down, there is a footman named Alfred. About halfway through the season, Rimmer visits the Bellamys. Alfred and Rimmer get together and shortly after Alfred leaves the Belamy household. He comes back in a later episode and it is implied that Rimmer was his lover.


Link

[Jay Lerner-Z]

Thanks, Scripps!

I'm sad that Upstairs Downstairs won't be back.

[EricMontreal22]

I actually was quite taken with the Baron, I have no idea how I forgot about all that, though the whole series (and its spin off Thomas and Sarah) are kinda muddled in my mind--when I have some time I should check them out again.

Scripps, I was going to download season two of U/D but then decided I'd just wait for the American showing. I overall enjoyed the short season 1, and felt it had potential to really come together--was this season a step downwards did you think? Marsh must be really mad now...

PBS is currently showing the recent adaptation of Birdsong which of course touches on Downton area. I really liked part one, though I admit I've never read the novel (even if it was apparently voted in the UK in reader's top 15 favorite novels survey).

[best12bars]

There's also the young debutant who becomes a nurse during WWI (Georgina in Up/Down, played by Lesley-Anne Down, and Lady Sybil in Downton Abbey).

Yes, I've noticed many plot similarities.

EDIT: Alfred vs. Thomas I noticed right away.

And not to mention that both households had someone go down on the Titanic. Downton Abbey's happened in the first episode, and Up/Down's Lady Marjorie was at the end of Season 2.

[Jay Lerner-Z]

Did "Lady Marjorie" later come back claiming to have survived?

I'd like to know how Downton are going to resolve that.

[EricMontreal22]

As hated by many as it was, I assume this isn't the last we've heard of the potential ancestor with the bandaged face..

[best12bars]

"Did "Lady Marjorie" later come back claiming to have survived?"

Unfortunately, the actress who played her begged to be written off of the show (and later regretted it), so she was gone for good. But her lady's maid, who sailed with her on the Titanic, showed up at the door and shocked everyone. She ultimately had lost her mind from the incident and had to be committed. It was sad.

As for the "English Patient" in Downton Abbey, I'm sure we haven't heard the last from him. I thought it was very odd (and awkward) that he just abruptly disappeared, right along with all the drama and speculation surrounding him. Definitely unfinished business.

[Jay Lerner-Z]

Sounds great - I think it's about time I sat down to watch the original. I wonder if Julian Fellowes is done with his "homage", or if more is to come. I think the Spanish flu outbreak in Downton is another example...though correct me if I'm wrong.

[best12bars]

Absolutely right. It claimed the life of James's wife Hazel (a major character and the lady of the house at the time) on Up/Down.

EDIT: I've revisited Up/Down since Downton Abbey started airing, and aside from the similarities, I've noticed two things, one in favor of Up/Down and one in favor of Downton Abbey.

The story lines and characters are much better drawn on Up/Down. Although that's not surprising because there were far more episodes per season, and five seasons (total). Still, I prefer the varied stories from Up/Down.

The technical values (picture and audio) on Up/Down, even on the recently released "remastered" editions are still pretty terrible. It was all shot on video tape, and while it looks better than, say, Dark Shadows or Carol Burnett Show, it's still far from the widescreen hi-def "beauty" shots we get every time on Downton Abbey. The stories may be better (and at the time, more original) on Up/Down, but there is no comparison in the production values to Abbey.

One more parallel, which didn't go too far on Downton Abbey, Lady Sybil was involved for a time in the suffragette movement, much to the shock in disliking of the family. So was Elizabeth, the daughter of the house, on Up/Down.

If you want good stories with fascinating characters that come and go (far more quickly than Downton Abbey), I definitely recommend you check out the original Upstairs Downstairs. I've been through the episodes twice now, and think it's one of the best shows ever produced for television.

[Gothampc]

If you like these shows, you should pay a visit to The Grand. It's more soap opera than these two shows, but still worth seeing at least Season 1.

I think the characters are better drawn on Downton Abbey. The dynamic between the oldest sister and the middle sister is very well played.

I'm also glad that Maggie Smith has a counterpart. I think that works very well.

I like the scheming servants in Season 1. It adds a bit of downstairs drama that Up/Down didn't always reach.

IMO, Elizabeth McGovern's acting is horrible. She should turn her paycheck back to the producers for some of the line readings that come out of her mouth.

One of my favorite bits in Season 1 is Maggie Smith sitting in the swivel chair. When she calls it a newfangled contraption and is told it goes all the way back to Thomas Jefferson, she replies: "Why must every day involve a fight with an American." LOL, great stuff!!

[EricMontreal22]

Best, I think you're right on all your points, or at least I agree (but I've only rewatched a small handful of old Up/Down episodes, and one of the not too loved spin-off since Downton began). Production value wise it is (understandably) pretty weak--frankly by the late 70s many major American daytime soaps looked better, and for a primetime serial the gorgeously filmed late 60s Peyton Place (which often aired three times a week) is far better directed. Up/Down also suffers from that odd thing UK shows had until even the 90s with Ab Fab where they shoot the interiors on videotape, and the rare exteriors on what seem sto be 16mm film which always gives me a bit of a jump when they move between the two, but I'm sure some don't even notice. But you do gain a lot from the slower pace and added time--Downton has a habit sometimes of going too quickly through certain plot points I think.

Gotham, speaking of McGovern, while I kinda like--for some weird reason--her portrayal, I do agree with you. I trust you saw Kim Catrall's brilliant impersonation of her in the BBC parody.

[best12bars]

"I think the characters are better drawn on Downton Abbey."

Here's my problem with that. The Downton characters have more layers perhaps, but everything seems too symmetrical and planned. I definitely prefer Up/Down's roster of characters. They surprised you occasionally with stepping out of their normal "safety zones," but generally played "true to form" in some startling scenarios. Is that less dimensional? Perhaps, but it doesn't feel as "choreographed" as Downton Abbey does. The plots, while I enjoy them, are "just too perfect." You can almost see Julian Fellows moving everybody around on an invisible (and perfectly rendered) chess board. It doesn't ring nearly as true to me in the end. Although, that's not to say I don't enjoy the show quite a bit (and hopefully will continue to do so).

People and situations aren't that balanced in real life. Occasionally, sure. But not on a weekly/daily basis.

[EricMontreal22]

Up/Down I believe was written more spontaneously--Fellowes said he had a three season arc planned from the get go, and I'd more or less believe him. Of course there are pluses and minuses to both techniques of writing, particularly when writing what is basically a soap...

[best12bars]

The problem is I feel like I can see the arch on Downton Abbey. There's something innately artificial and symmetrical about it.

With Up/Down you had one major actress ask to be written off the show (Lady Marjorie), and another (Elizabeth) who demanded too much (money or scripts or both) and was abruptly "let go" by having her (major) character sent to America, never to return again.

These were unforeseen plot changes that made the overall story seem more spontaneous with a sense of "what's going to happen next?" That was the case several times throughout the run.

Perhaps I feel this way because Season 2 of Downton was the "World War I" season and felt so much like Season 4 of Up/Down. Who knows?

I'll still watch. I love the cast, the production values, the music (really fantastic), and yes, even the story.

[Scripps2]

"was this season a step downwards did you think?"

No. But it wasn't the big step up that it should have been.

Unappealing characters and uninvolving plotlines. Anne Reid as the cook was about the only authentic performance. The historical references were feeble and contrived. Some of the plotlines were so ridiculous that, had they been true, the servants would have found it beneath their dignity to work for the folks upstairs and left. The lack of inspiration was blatant.

The production team couldn't even get the sets right - it looked like they were assembled from an architectural salvage sale: furniture that was the wrong proportion for the rooms; no pictures on the walls.

Ofcourse the real sequel to Upstairs Downstairs is Ab Fab: both located a few streets from each other.