Mark Hellinger Theater/Times Square Church

[fashionguru_23]

I'm heading to New York next month, and I was wondering if anyone has gone inside the Times Square Church to see what remains of the old theatre.

Do you think my best bet is to go for a Church service if I wanted to see the inside?

[thetinymagic2]

I haven't been inside for a coupla of yrs, but used to drop in all the time, just to remember. I worked there back in the day (70s-80's)...I believe the last show there was Legs Diamond. I just loved, loved, loved that circular lobby, it was pink and blue and gold with clouds? as I remember. Don't know what it's like right now. It's such a goddam shame that it's not being used as a legit theatre anymore. i think that the Nederlanders (?) lease it out for about 1 million/yr., or something. The place is fantastic, historic.

[Michael Bennett]

You can just walk in before/ after any service and take a look around. The space is actually beautifully maintained and hasn't really been altered since its days as a theatre- the Timea Square Church deserves credit for keeping it in better shape than most of the theatres on Broadway.

[thetinymagic2]

True, MB. Do you think it can ever be sold back as a legit Bway house? In my dreams, right?

[Michael Bennett]

It seems unlikely- they've turned down a lot of lucrative offers over the years. While it would be wonderful to see it house theatre again some day, it's a very large house, similar in size to the Broadway, the Palace and a few others that tend to have some difficulty finding consistent tenants. I'd honestly rather see the money that could be spent on buying the Mark Hellenger go towards developing and building some more mid size Broadway houses. We could really use a couple more Eugene O Neill Theatres more than we need the Mark Hellenger...

[LegallyBroadway2]

One of the most beautiful theaters I've been in. I just fell in love. Wish so terribly it could once again house a Broadway show....

[AEA AGMA SM]

I agree with you, MB. At this point the fact that it's being maintained as well as it is is satisfactory for me. At some point the need for another large musical house may arrive, but at this point it is just unnecessary.

I would love to see a new or reconverted space along the lines of the O'Neill. I really love that theatre and how versatile it is in which shows it can house.

[MamasDoin'Fine]

It's stunning, simply stunning!
You are welcome to walk n when ever there is a service and just sit there and take in the beauty of this magnificent theatre.
Yes, it would be great to see it stage a great big Broadway show again but it has a very small stage.
Walking past its rather plain and ordinary facade you would ever guess as to what lies inside.

[Jonwo]

I wish Nederlander would buy back the theatre and give the TSC the Marquis, that theatre is devoid of any charm!

[castlestreet]

The Mark Hellinger was also becoming something of a Flop House was it not?

1600 Pennsylvania Ave
Merlin
A Dolls Life
Timbuktu
Platinum
Oliver! (the LuPone Revival)
Rags
and finally Legs Diamond

not the most awe inspiring run of shows from the mid-70's on- if memory serves me it is also where the not so great film version of A Chorus Line was shot- ouch!

[CarlosAlberto]

The Mark Hellinger is the Lord's home now. It's in mighty great hands. Amen.

[charlesjguiteau]

It makes my little heart go pittipat to see so many posters memorializing LEGS DIAMOND, the last show I worked on as assistant set designer on Broadway, lo those many years ago. We spent months and months at the Hellinger trying in vain to get that show right (another casualty of never going out of town to properly delouse the thing). Not only was the lobby a stunner, but the backstage was bigger than most, including an upstage well that was almost like a second stage behind the first. That's where more and more of our axed sets went to die as the previews wore on. Ah, good times.

[Smaxie]

>it's a very large house, similar in size to the Broadway, the Palace and a few others that tend to have some difficulty finding consistent tenants.<

It's smaller than those theatres. It had around 1500 seats. And unlike the Palace, just a single balcony. It's actually a really desirable size - a mid range musical house. The sad thing is - had the Nederlander Organization held on for just a couple more years, that theatre would have been steadily booked these days.

[Gypsy9]

Michael Bennett: You mentioned the need for mid- size theatres. It seems to me that the recently mostly restored Liberty Theatre on 42nd Street would have fit that category if it hadn't been turned into a huge BBQ restaurant. How the 42nd Street organization that oversaw the renovation of many Broadway theatres let them get away with that is beyond me.

[Smaxie]

I'm not certain that New42 has been such a great friend for the nine theatres that were on 42nd Street. Of those nine, three are being used for their original intended purpose. Three were demolished. The other three are suffering various indignities, as noted below.

Disney's deep pockets were responsible for restoring the jewel of the block, the New Amsterdam and they deserve all of the credit for that astonishing rescue. The Selwyn did return as the American Airlines, although the lovely Selwyn building that provided the entrance to the theatre "fell down" in the middle of the night, without anyone around to witness it. The theatre itself, mostly on 43rd Street, was not damaged. Hmmmm. The Apollo, a nice single balcony 1100 seat theatre that had a brief return as a legit house in the 70s and early 80s, was demolished along with the Lyric to make way for the ungainly Ford Center/Hilton/Foxwoods - with a few architectural details preserved, as well as the Lyric's graceful 43rd Street facade. The Candler/Harris, which was another single balcony house that still had many of its original details, was also demolished, without much notice from anyone. The Liberty, after losing its lobby to Ripley's and having its facade almost completely obscured by signs, has only opened as the BBQ restaurant after sitting marooned behind a blank wall for almost 20 years. The Eltinge/Empire, received a cheap, shoddy "restoration" and serves as the lobby for AMC Movie Theatres. The Times Square (which several of the big theatre owners had their eyes on at one time) has been intended for failed retail project after failed project, but remains on hold now for that 4D Broadway Museum Experience thing. The Victory, nicely restored, became a children's theatre.

[bandit964]

if the Times Square Theatre is restored and turned into the Broadway 4D Experience, and the experience fails to turn a profit, could it then be more easily transformed into a legit house?

[best12bars]

I saw "Flamenco Puro" there back in the mid '80s. Beautiful theatre.

[Smaxie]

When the subject came up once before, I think someone mentioned that the Times Square's problem is the lack of a loading door on 43rd Street. Any load in/load out for a show would have to happen on 42nd Street. That's an understandable problem, although when it was going to be a Mark Ecko store, I never understood why it was not going to be a problem to unload Ecko's merchandise.

[Gypsy9]

Smaxie, thanks for the recap of the situation along 42nd Street. I had not realized that the Harris was demolished--I remember seeing movies there in the 1970's. Then, what started with the magnificent restoration of the New Amsterdam, and to a lesser extent to the American Airlines and the New Victory, just ran out of steam. What a shame! It had been such an admirable prospect. Well, at least the theatre district is now protected by having landmark status. No more Marquis Theatre debacles.

[Michael Bennett]

Smaxie, I know people have said that there is some zoning issue with the Times Square being used as a legit house again, but I'm in agreement with you; I don't see any reason why zoning (based on a loading dock) would prevent the theatre being used for plays but would allow it to be used for retail (or even a 4D movie theatre). If there is some kind of zoning issue, I'm guessing its something else.

[Gothampc]

The question shouldn't be "Why can't the theater community have the Hellinger back" but "Why can't we produce beautiful theaters anymore?" When you sit in the Hellinger, the feeling you get is that you are being elevated to the celestial realm. It's beautiful to sit in the balcony and see that large crown that hangs over the proscenium. Is it too expensive these days to create a breathtaking interior?

[Michael Bennett]

Well I'm sure cost as a lot to do with it - and nowadays most new theatres are more concerned with creating a space that will function for great sound/lighting design etc.

[Dollypop]

Several years ago the topic of the Hellinger came up on these boards and a member of the Times Square Church posted something about the church having outgrown the physical area of the Hellinger and they were looking to move into a larger space. That was a long while ago and we haven't heard anything about it since.

[egghumor]

Thanks a million, MB for posting the church service photo. It does indeed underscore the glorious majesty of the Hellinger. I can truly understand the desire of so many musical theater lovers to have the Mark Hellinger operating as a legit house again. Somewhat sadly for me, I remember seeing flop after flop after flop there (except for the long-running SUGAR BABIES which I saw 8 times). So many flops in succession that I began referring to it in late-70s/80s as "The Hell."

I believe that it were ever to be returned to being a legit house again, it would surely see a succession of hit productions.
Perhaps one day...

[Gothampc]

Dollypop, what they did instead was built an extension on the side of the church. So there's an annex that faces Broadway that they use for overspill.

[Dollypop]

The photo that MB posted makes me realize how ugly light bars are when they're hung over the heads of the audience. There are none in this photo and the view of the theater is excellent as a result.

One would think that the cleverness of today's designers would allow for a way to conceal those ugly (but much needed) light bars.