So Why The Hell Was Nicholson In The Hotel Picture In 1921?

[Wynbish]

From dust we were created, and to dust we shall return. But not before looking like Jim Carrey.

[best12bars]

I never cared for hedge maze myself.

Hey, I just remembered that during the summer of 1978, my family took a touristy trip from Kansas to Disneyland ... and we stayed at the Inn of Tomorrow in Anaheim near the park.

The Inn of Tomorrow was this brilliantly tacky, Jetson-ized Best Western Motel. But they had ... wait for it ... a TOPIARY GARDEN out back, with all these hedge animals. I think I made my mom pick that hotel because I had recently read "The Shining," and I figured I was in for some added entertainment pretending to run away from them! I was not disappointed.

[best12bars]

You can even see the "Topiary Trees" advertised on their marquee.



This is a more recent shot of the garden, after they remodeled and lost the Jetson's vibe.

[Jordan Catalano]

But were there any pictures of a 1921 4th of July New Years Eve party on the wall?

[nygrl232]

If Jack was always a part of the hotel, then how did his soul get loose and out in the world? I guess Jack was there in 1921, for some reason involved in whatever happened to create this cycle, and whatever happened resulted in those souls always going back to and perishing in the hotel in some way. So Jack was there in an earlier life, something happened, he was reincarnated as Jack, and karma sucked him back to the Overlook, the hotel that doesn't 'overlook' anything because it's mad at you for whatever reason, and it brings you back.

[best12bars]

I don't think Jack started out there. I think the ghosts exist in the past (1921), but Jack was never a part of that until be became one of them upon his death at the hotel.

It's his destiny, not his history. Another realm, not connected to ours in any linear sense. They exist and "always have," locked in that era.

That's why they have souls who lived in our world in various different times. I think it only gets confusing when you think of them as advancing through time, which they don't. If you encounter them next week, next year, or fifty years from now, they will still be in 1921.

[Roscoe]

That website posted before makes a pretty specific assertion, to the effect that Jack sings "California Here I Come" just before he dies. This was certainly news to me, as I've seen the film any number of times in the last 30 years, and never heard that. I just checked, at the specific time the website mentions (2:18:09) and can say that the author of that website really needs to get a life -- there's no way that Jack's demented howling in the hedge maze as Wendy and Danny drive off can really be mistaken for that particular song.

Here's the link:
I mean really...

[SNAFU]

"If Jack was always a part of the hotel, then how did his soul get loose and out in the world?"

Time and space is only revelant to the living.

[Roscoe]

Here's the scene in question -- the moment the blogger describes is at right about the 2:00 mark. Jack starts hollering incoherently as the Snowcat drives off---






-- does anyone really hear "California Here I Come" in that?

[strummergirl]

I feel like the hotel created a vicious cycle of evil with the caretaker role leading to impending doom for that person and their family. The hotel attacks the weaknesses of the patriarch, in Jack Torrance's case alcholism and writing, and that kick starts the murderous path. With the Torrances, the x-factor was the fact that Danny with Tony managed to see what the others were not able to see way ahead of everyone else.

I also think the hotel itself was an animated character that watched over any of its residents. Kubrick's cinematography in his films have this overall sense of detachment generally but coupled with the steadicam shots of Danny going through the Overlook and also that eery introductory shot of the maze that transitioned from Jack Torrance looking at a model of that maze I feel like even those shots of the Overlook Hotel tour are very voyeuristic, as in the hotel is watching the new residents. I even think that is not Grady who lets the door open for Jack but the hotel itself.

There is a cut scene that has some police or authority figure on the rescue team who says to Wendy Torrance that they were unable to find Jack Torrance's body rather than him found being frozen in the maze (which is significant itself). Had that made the final cut, I think the debate of ghost or vicious cycle of doom still prevails as the theory but it also serves that the Overlook is the ultimate limbo. The Overlook put Jack's spirit in the photo to signify the limbo, imo.

I can buy Jack being doomed, Jack being haunted, and even Jack himself being a ghost but I never really am as sold about the idea that it is all in his head or this is just cabin fever crazy wreaking havoc all by itself.

And just responding to the earlier parts in the thread, I thought for sure, then again this movie had a lot of different scenes with a lot of takes, that the scene where Scatman Crothers/Dick Hallorann explains 'the shining' to Danny had the most amount of takes. So many takes that Nicholson actually thought Kubrick should give the guy a break. I think Crothers had a similar hard time as Duvall, but of course he never got dehydrated from shedding too many tears.

I think Duvall is perfect in the role. I do not think for a second we are supposed to buy the Torrances as some well-matched unsuspecting couple whose marriage is destroyed to its foundation from the hotel. Already way too many problems with their dynamics, like the weird car ride to the hotel and the revelation that Jack lashed out at Danny that knocked the kid out for a considerable time attending school. And make no mention of Jack Torrance's failure as an author. I imagine his drunken rant to Lloyd to be close to the truth with Lloyd just nodding and spouting cliches agreeing with 'the boss'.

The documentary reviewing the various theories on the 'hidden meanings' of The Shining called Room 237. My professor, who of course showed this film mentioned it, and I swear the AV Club did a recent review. I need to find where this is available. The directors do mention you could do a whole film on the final shot.




Room 237

[Jordan Catalano]

I always like reading your posts on movies, Strummergirl.

Now tell me what the hell is significant about that date. Lol

[Wynbish]

On July 4, 1921, A new conservative government is formed in Italy by Ivanoe Bonomi.

Boom.

[Jordan Catalano]

But why were they having a New Years Eve party on July 4th?? Huh?? Tell me THAT.

[Wynbish]

They're neo-patriots who believe that the new year should start on the day of American independence, as it became a new country. They're so radical in their neo-patriotism that the black guy that dies does not get to join the party.

Boooom.

[Jordan Catalano]

Whatever.

I'm watching my favorite Kubrick film (EYES WIDE SHUT) right now to try to forget that damn picture.

[strummergirl]

Thanks, Jordan. Coming from you that means a lot.

And the photo's date or goof... I get a sense that nothing is supposed to make sense in the hotel. I mean if you look at the actual exterior architecture and how the interior hotel is comparatively, these are clearly two completely different structures. But the architecture and complete impossibilities of space in the film is something my professor contends are on purpose and not a goof. It is to show that this hotel is deservedly an animated haunting of the Indian burial ground it was built over.

But the dates...... was it to possibly signify the ambiguities of time and space? Maybe (yeah, that is a stupid answer lol). The Grady murders were in 1921, IIRC, but I am certain it corresponded with neither New Years Eve or July 4th.

[best12bars]

I'm still wondering why Kubrick changed the room number from 217 to 237.

If you find that answer, maybe you'll discover why he decided to set the ghost world in 1921.

[best12bars]

-- does anyone really hear "California Here I Come" in that?

If you try really hard, you can bend the pitches of his rants to sound "sorta" like the first two lines of the song. But that's using a LOT of imagination.

I remember someone saying the alien mother ship in Close Encounters started to play "Everything's Coming Up Roses" at one point. The closest I could get was finding the first three notes ("you'll be swell") when the base notes are slowing down after the fugue.

Really, really stretching it.

[Roscoe]

As I remember, the hotel in the film was based on an actual hotel that had a real room 217, and the owners/management of that hotel requested that Kubrick change the room number to a number that didn't correspond to a room in their hotel.

[Roscoe]

As I remember, the hotel in the film was based on an actual hotel that had a real room 217, and the owners/management of that hotel requested that Kubrick change the room number to a number that didn't correspond to a room in their hotel.

[best12bars]

That makes sense.

My brother stayed at the hotel in Colorado that Stephen King used as his inspiration for the story. Not the one they used for the filming, but the one he used for his novel.

And King stayed in Room 217, which is part of their "ghost tour." They even sell keys for Room 217 as gifts now, so I guess they have embraced it.

The Stanley Hotel

[strummergirl]

Roscoe's correct. 237 did not exist in the Oregon hotel it was shot in.

The hotel in Colorado that was based on the novel does show the film on a continuous loop.

[best12bars]

Watching "The Shining" now ...

This is easily one of my favorite horror films of all time. I'm up to the seen with "Delbert" Grady and Jack in the bathroom. That insanely red bathroom next to the bar. Wow.

EDIT: One interesting thing, aside from Grady's blatant racism in his talk with Jack ... he has a British accent, and so do both of his daughters in the hallway. Why British, I wonder? And why so racist?

[Jordan Catalano]

Why so racist? As Republicans would say, "Why Not"

[best12bars]

A "n*gger."

A "n*gger cook."

He says it like three times and makes a point of noting that it's a serious problem.

[tazber]

So here's a little movie that anyone who posted in (or actually read) this thread has to see.

It's not a recommendation, it's a requirement.

This is some deep ****.
Prepare to have your minds blown