Gaveston I am a HUGE Herskovitz/Zwick fanboy, I even sat through their flawed quarterlife (though the original script before the mistake of making it an online show was much better). Still mad season 3 of Once and Again isn't on DVD--while Holzman was at least as much a contributor to My So-Called Life, I really think they've done some of the best TV writing ever between their three key shows. Parenthood, as you probably know, is from Jason Katims who started writing with My So-Called Life and created the H/Z short lived, but good, Relativity. I t5hink Parenthood has potential--it's not as good as their key shows, but... Glad to see another Once and Again fan as I think it's really underated, and many people who would appreciate it wrote it off as a romantic comedy when it was so much deeper than that.
This is getting off-topic, but I think the Herskovitz/Zwick thing speaks to the power of TV since hte mid 80s--certainly the film work they've done together has, IMHO been obvious and not all that good, completely at odds with their tv work since thirtysomething.
WELL! RippedMan, I love you for mentioning that play. One of my favorites of all time! No one else I know saw it so I never get to discuss it.
Anyway, y'all are far better than I at expressing your thoughts with the written word, but I guess I should echo that most of my favorite theater-going experiences are those that could ONLY happen live onstage. Sometimes it's Sutton Foster and a bunch of dancers going through an 8-minute tap number seemingly without breaking a sweat, and sometimes it's Jayne Houdyshell breaking character to give Lisa Kron a note from Lisa's mother who, up until that point, the audience has accepted was actually Jayne. Both blow my mind in the most exciting way.
Also, I JUST started Six Feet Under (I know, about a decade late) and I love it.
also, RippedMan you describe today's plays as "people sitting around arguing boring things"? I could go on for pages and pages here but again i'll advise....honey, read a book. Or a newspaper. And open your heart.
There are a lot of great points here (unfortunately interspersed with some of the typical cattiness). I think it's a fair assessment that there's an abundance of sitcom-ish squabbling in recent American theater. Part of it may be what audiences are perceived as wanting to see but I think another part of it is what audiences are being conditioned to see. The push for the familiar over the unique and even daring has become central in virtually all forms of American entertainment in a way that's very cultural but also very market-based.
TV has always been almost exclusively that way but now American film, musical theater and straight theater seem to have followed in narrowing their scope to the point where familiar themes, plotlines and properties just keep getting regurgitated. It's not surprising to me that "Leap of Faith" got a standing "O". Everything does these days whether deserved or not and that show is based on a Steve Martin movie with music by the "Beauty and the Beast" composer. Sound familiar?
My favorite thing about going to the theater is seeing things that surprise and challenge me. I like the feeling of participating in the process and if that requires some effort on my part so much the better. I saw the revival of "Long Day's Journery..." (not one of my favorites) with Vanessa Redgrave & Brian Dennehy a few years back. The production was very long but beautifully done and the performances stunning. During the intermission, a complete stranger complained to me that the characters were talking too much and that there were no "action scenes...like in a good movie." I explained that this was a dramatic play but he said that if the next act had more talk he'd leave. I suppose if the next revival interpolates a new scene involving a car chase with Mary Tyrone he'll be satisfied.
In any case, I think audiences have become conditioned to the expect the expected, and that includes having the theatrical experience wash over them without having to work too hard at it. There is a place for that kind of theater and there should be, but it has become preeminent in a way that seems to preclude other types of theater from getting produced as consistently.
Still mad season 3 of Once and Again isn't on DVD--while Holzman was at least as much a contributor to My So-Called Life, I really think they've done some of the best TV writing ever between their three key shows.
Holzman was involved with all three shows. She began as a staff writer in Season 2 of thirtysomething, then provided them with the idea and the original script for My So-Called Life and served as the show's guiding force, and then we Zwick and Hershkovitz reunited the writers for Once and Again, she (once again) became part of the team.
AADA -- so you admit you didn't love Long Days, but when someone liked it less than did you, they are a caveman? That hardly seems fair. Not everyone has the same tastes. So WHAT if that patron prefers action films to dramatic plays? At least he's not pretending to be pretentious.
I have to disagree that there are no suprises on Bway. August:Osage County, while full of alcohol and drug abuse and abuse of all sorts, kept me (and audiences) on our toes and in awe of every twist and turn. (Which by the way, my principal refers to August as a contemporary Long Days Journey.)
I wasn't saying they were a "caveman", just giving an example of expecting or wanting what's familiar and rejecting its absence. My point was simply that much of current theater is geared toward meeting rather than challenging expectations. I don't have a problem with that per se, as long as there's a mix.
Thanks PalJoey--I am well aware, as I said I'm a bit of a geek when it comes to Bedford Falls' produced shows--but I appreciate that you seem to be as well :) I admit I give Holzman's troubled script with Wicked a lot of credit knowing that she scripted many of thirtysomething and Once and Again's best episodes--as well as creating My So-Called Life.
I'd like to mention Hurt Village, the Brother/Sister Plays, Equivocation, and Compulsion as additional examples of strong modern straight plays from the last few seasons. I found each of them to be edgy, exciting, fresh, thought-provoking, and memorable. And another thumbs up for the fabulous Jerusalem.
I really hated The Lyons. I just don't see what's exciting about a bunch of rich white people fighting for two hours. I'm tired of giving that kind of play my money, even if it has great performances by Linda Lavin or Stockard Channing.
I agree that many recent plays have been little more than people insulting each other. There has to be genuine feeling under the insults, which is one of the reason I think August: Osage County was so successful.
Some other great news plays that don't involve comedic insults are Good People, Invasion!, and Milk Like Sugar.
This is getting off-topic, but I think the Herskovitz/Zwick thing speaks to the power of TV since the mid 80s--certainly the film work they've done together has, IMHO been obvious and not all that good, completely at odds with their tv work since thirtysomething.
It's a rare team that uses the episodic form to explore subtleties rather than merely being repetitious. (I agree PARENTHOOD is no ONCE AND AGAIN, but compared to all the cop, lawyer, and doctor dramas at 10 pm, it's a treasure. And for the record, I thought GLORY was pretty good.)
AADA81, I think it's axiomatic that the more expensive an entertainment form gets, the more the power is handed over to the marketing department. Gone are the days when a Broadway play could be financed by a single producer writing a check. Now that corporations are producers, I think homogenization of the product is inevitable.
(P.S. to everyone: yes, yes, I am speaking in broad terms. I assume we all are doing so and there will be exceptions.)
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joined:10/31/11
Posted: 4/28/12 at 11:32pm