Posted by ken8631 2013-02-27 08:25:43
Was anyone surprised that the orchestra wasn't actually in the theatre (they were in the Capital Records building?)? Does it matter? I would think that the sound would be a lot different for the people actually there.....
Did they not have an orchestra pit?Orchestra not in theatre for Oscars?
Posted by TheGingerBreadMan 2013-02-27 08:30:01
I wasn't suprised at all. I think it made plenty of sense. There may not have been enough space in the theater for an orchestra.
Orchestra not in theatre for Oscars?
Posted by ken8631 2013-02-27 08:43:42
It that normal for the Oscars?
Orchestra not in theatre for Oscars?
Posted by Brian07663NJ 2013-02-27 09:11:37
ken8631 - YES I had an audible WTF moment when I saw that. Thought it was stupid. I was just in that theatre last month to see the final performance of Iris. Although the it looks gigantic on television the theatre is more of a Gershiwn size inside with extra balconies. Without massive sets there should certainly be a location for an orchestra at the theatre. Had to be some strange reason...union related?
Orchestra not in theatre for Oscars?
Posted by Brian07663NJ 2013-02-27 09:23:00
In trying to research why the orchestra wasn't at the theatre I found an interesting fact.
Adele's "Skyfall" is the first time a 007 tune has won in the Best Original Song category!
WOW - I found that really annoying because I own the "The Best of James Bond" cd that has all the movie songs. "Skyfall" has to be one of the worst 007 songs I have heard. If you like Shirley Bassey and 007 I highly recommend the album. She sings 3 songs on the album: "Goldfinger", "Moonraker" and "Diamonds Are Forever".
Orchestra not in theatre for Oscars?
Posted by ken8631 2013-02-27 10:04:48
I can't even imagine seeing a Broadway show with the orchestra not in the theatre......
Hopefully they won't follow the Oscar's lead and start outsourcing the orchestra! Orchestra in India, playing for multiple shows? lol
Orchestra not in theatre for Oscars?
Posted by trentsketch 2013-02-27 10:14:05
Simply put, they switched the venue to a much smaller movie palace that did not have an orchestra pit. There have been Broadway shows where either the entire orchestra or large parts of the orchestra were placed in a separate room from the auditorium or even in the basement with the audio pumped into the theater. It's not an uncommon practice to feed in the audio from elsewhere. It didn't impact the quality of the telecast.
Orchestra not in theatre for Oscars?
Posted by ken8631 2013-02-27 10:19:32
I guess outsourcing the orchestra may be in the cards then! Chinese orchestra maybe? Can have a pretty large orchestra that way.....
Orchestra not in theatre for Oscars?
Posted by Yero my Hero 2013-02-27 10:21:48
I know it's not the greatest example, but the orchestra for SPIDER-MAN is actually in two different rooms in a completely part of the theater. They had to do that because the pit is full of traps and other stage machinery.
Orchestra not in theatre for Oscars?
Posted by SondheimFan5 2013-02-27 10:23:49
I think Patti LuPone has said the Tonys do the same thing. Though I disagree with having the orchestra off-site (it should be front and center), for sound balance reasons it is probably a wise move to have it in the off-site studio so they can get as high quality as possible.
Orchestra not in theatre for Oscars?
Posted by trentsketch 2013-02-27 10:37:51
Yero, that's one of the examples I was thinking of. They had a nice video a while back explaining how it all worked.
Orchestra not in theatre for Oscars?
Posted by followspot 2013-02-27 10:50:20
Already standard practice on Broadway for sections of the orchestra to be housed in different backstage rooms within the theatre.
Orchestra not in theatre for Oscars?
Posted by ken8631 2013-02-27 12:30:49
Wow - guess I'm used to actually looking into the orchestra pit during intermission. I'm sure it sounds a bit different if they aren't physically in the same room..... No? If not, may as well outsource them so the same orchestra can play different shows! Saves a lot of $$ I'm sure.... Or just pre-record and play it back for each performance....
I like having them there, seems more "real" to me.... I'm paying good $$ for those seats, I'd like to have the orchestra there with me.
Orchestra not in theatre for Oscars?
Posted by finebydesign 2013-02-27 13:05:30
The Palace does the same thing, I think the strings are upstairs somewheres. At least for Aida.
Orchestra not in theatre for Oscars?
Posted by broadwayguy2 2013-02-27 13:22:51
Seriously, it depends on the instrumentation as to whether it makes a difference to the sound.
In the cast of the Oscars, it makes fine sense in that it frees up the design of the stage and allows for greater points of access to and from the stage for winners, cameras, etc... and, let's be frank, it's a LOT easier for the conductor to stick to schedule and just start playing the Jaws the theme when the clock strikes zero than it would be were that winner staring at him three feet away...
In the other cases, reasons vary.. you don't lose two rows of orchestra seating, you free the sub-stage for mechanics, dressing space, storage, etc... You also, as has been mentioned, have cases where not all of the band or orchestra can physically FIT in the pit and some instruments play from other locations in the theatre. You could make the arguments about sound quality for a wind instrument, yes. but for quite a few instruments, it doesn't "detract" from a live sound at all... Keyboards, Electric Guitars and Basses, V-Drum Kits, etc - many of them make no 'live' sound at all without being fed through the sound system, some other instruments are quiet and drowned out by others in the pit so all you hear is the 'mixed' version regardless.. Still OTHER instruments - particularly percussion - sound far better (if they have to be mixed through a sound board) when played in an isolated room because you don't get any bleed over to or from other instruments.
For the Tonys - at the Beacon particularly - there are so many people and so many things going on and the music requirements so complex that it is just a lot more simple and sure to have the musicians located elsewhere.
Orchestra not in theatre for Oscars?
Posted by trentsketch 2013-02-27 13:33:01
The outsourcing argument is a total joke. Sound does not move fast enough to stay in time with the show from great distances. And a CD cannot replace the ability of the orchestra director to cover for actor mistakes, vamp during a scene change, or allow the actors to actually perform a song with any tempo-based nuance.
Elaborate sets means a need for more room beneath the stage during a show. The whole orchestra can't always fit in the physical pit by the time the set is loaded in. It's been like this a long time.
Orchestra not in theatre for Oscars?
Posted by Phyllis Rogers Stone 2013-02-27 13:38:15
Like followspot mentioned, it's already common practice on Broadway. A Chorus Line famously had its orchestra in other part of the theatre.
Orchestra not in theatre for Oscars?
Posted by TheGingerBreadMan 2013-02-27 14:36:22
WICKED's percussionist plays from a seperate room. The show has so many percussion instruments, that it would take up 1/3 of the pit.
Orchestra not in theatre for Oscars?
Posted by ken8631 2013-02-27 14:57:40
On the outsourcing issue - could just be in another building somewhere. The actors play to the sound, the sound doesn't play to the actors, so the speed at which the sound arrives makes no difference. It's probably milliseconds anyway.
Orchestra not in theatre for Oscars?
Posted by PitPro2004 2013-02-27 19:47:04
There were two music ensembles; one that backed up Adele for the obvious reason and the other playing from one of the studios at Capitol Records.
Apparently they've been doing this since the move to the Kodak center. (or whatever it's called now).
The choice was actually quite brilliant because now you can completely control the balance and sound as necessary. The biggest problems of the night only occurred when they gave Jennifer the belter a microphone, and yet failed to bump up Catherine Zeta Jones vocals (even if the lip sync rumors were true, she was still under volume against the orch).
Thankfully the musicians got air time before the commercial breaks so you could see them. And they were MUCH happier leaving at the end of the night in terms of traffic...
Orchestra not in theatre for Oscars?
Posted by AEA AGMA SM 2013-02-27 20:44:35
"On the outsourcing issue - could just be in another building somewhere. The actors play to the sound, the sound doesn't play to the actors, so the speed at which the sound arrives makes no difference. It's probably milliseconds anyway."
A building nearby, yes, but the further away they go the greater that time difference would be. For an example just watch your local news anytime they have somebody reporting live from the field. You'll see that delay in action when the anchors in the studio ask the reporter a question and it takes them a couple of seconds to begin responding.
Orchestra not in theatre for Oscars?
Posted by GavestonPS 2013-02-27 22:09:14
There were two music ensembles; one that backed up Adele for the obvious reason and the other playing from one of the studios at Capitol Records.
I couldn't tell, but the two professional conductors in the room with me swore the on-stage orchestra with Adele was faking it.
The actors play to the sound, the sound doesn't play to the actors, so the speed at which the sound arrives makes no difference. It's probably milliseconds anyway.
Just one reason why so many Broadway musicals end up sounding like aerobics classes. There was a day when the ensemble followed the conductor, but the conductor (within reason*) followed the principals, allowing the latter to act while singing.
* A good conductor could "goose" the tempo if the soloist was dragging or rein in a runaway number, but conductor and principal were collaborators. I'm sure this is still the case in some shows, but when actors are responding primarily to what they hear, they are not acting what they feel.
Orchestra not in theatre for Oscars?
Posted by winston89 2013-02-28 08:30:42
I did like how they showcased some musicians during the Oscars last year.
and, TheGingerBreadMan, the drummer for Wicked is in the pit. I remember seeing him there when I saw the show a couple of weeks ago. And, speaking as a drummer, while the show's score may be viewed as percussion heavy, so to speak, they are all things that are small and can be added onto a drumkit.
I also think that with regards to Broadway and orchestras, they don't need to be in the pit. It's nice to see them if they are but it is not something that I think is needed.
Another thing to consider is that if producers remove a pit from the orchestra, and move the orchestra elsewhere in the theatre (like the basement etc) then they can have an extra row or two of seats.
Orchestra not in theatre for Oscars?
Posted by Tag 2013-02-28 09:16:53
^While the drummer might be in the Wicked pit, TheGingerBreadMan said the percussionist is in a separate room. Take a look at this video, Wicked is extremely percussion heavy (59 instruments).
Orchestra not in theatre for Oscars?
Posted by Fosse76 2013-02-28 11:56:36
Simply put, they switched the venue to a much smaller movie palace that did not have an orchestra pit.
If you are talking about the Oscars, that's not true. It was at the 3300+ seat Dolby Theater (formerly Kodak), which was built FOR the Oscars.
There have been Broadway shows where either the entire orchestra or large parts of the orchestra were placed in a separate room from the auditorium or even in the basement with the audio pumped into the theater. It's not an uncommon practice to feed in the audio from elsewhere. It didn't impact the quality of the telecast.
True, but it may have affected the sound inside the venue itself. As for the telecast, I felt the orchestra overwhelmed the singing.
Orchestra not in theatre for Oscars?
Posted by JoeKv99 2013-02-28 12:15:40
The nice part is that they can afford a larger orchestra this way. During Orchestral down time, they also recorded backing tracks for a laxative commercial and the intro to a Korean documentary for PBS.The Tony Award orchestra will be able to play the theme for the ABC evening news, then play a bat mitzvah in Trenton, then the Tonys!
Orchestra not in theatre for Oscars?
Posted by Ed_scotch 2013-02-28 12:43:33
That would be tragic but I wouldn't put it past executives to think of it as a way to cut costs.... Ugh...
Orchestra not in theatre for Oscars?
Posted by PitPro2004 2013-02-28 12:55:52
"There were two music ensembles; one that backed up Adele for the obvious reason and the other playing from one of the studios at Capitol Records.
I couldn't tell, but the two professional conductors in the room with me swore the on-stage orchestra with Adele was faking it."
That's entirely possible because at one point I saw Adele's drummer either drop a stick or attempt to re-adjust something down by his left foot and he was completely bent over fixing it while playing with one hand.
JR Robinson was the drummer in the studio group at Capitol. I heard the Adele drummer was Peter Erskine.
Orchestra not in theatre for Oscars?
Posted by newintown 2013-02-28 13:03:37
In most Broadway theatres today, I find that very little sound comes from the pit (on the rare occasions when it isn't entirely covered); what the audience hears is primarily coming from the amplifiers scattered around the house. Acoustic music is a rarity on Broadway - and most people are unaware of the difference.
Orchestra not in theatre for Oscars?
Posted by ken8631 2013-02-28 13:29:36
The orchestra was pretty prominent at the recent "South Pacific" play. Wouldn't have been the same if they weren't there (at least I don't think so...)
Orchestra not in theatre for Oscars?
Posted by newintown 2013-02-28 13:31:30
That and the latest Gypsy revivals are the exceptions to the rule.
Orchestra not in theatre for Oscars?
Posted by AEA AGMA SM 2013-02-28 13:47:56
Don't forget Chicago. That orchestra is even more prominent than the 2008 Gypsy one was because they can't hide them the way they did for a good portion of Gypsy.
And having done a summer stock Gypsy years ago with a drastically reduced orchestra I hope to never hear that score without a full brass section again.
Orchestra not in theatre for Oscars?
Posted by PitPro2004 2013-02-28 13:53:05
"And having done a summer stock Gypsy years ago with a drastically reduced orchestra I hope to never hear that score without a full brass section again."
bless you!!!!!
Orchestra not in theatre for Oscars?
Posted by ken8631 2013-02-28 14:01:42
Saw Les Mis at the NJPAC a few years back. Didn't sound right. Looked onto the orch pit at intermission and noticed that there wasn't much there, mainly synthesizers. Reallllly missed the full orchestra!!!! Was obvious....
