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Michael Riedel: "It's A Great White Elephant"
Posted by Patti LuPone FANatic 2012-12-14 05:28:33

Read Michael Riedel's thoughts on the Foxwoods Theatre. from RC in Austin, Texas

Michael Riedel:
Posted by Kelly2 2012-12-14 11:37:26

It was an uproarious triumph. Too bad you werent there to share it with me. I guess you were at your favorite holiday show, The Christmasy Mystery of Edwin Drood, voting on another ending. My favorite is when the Maccabees win.

I love Jackie Hoffman. And I would SO see that ending.

Michael Riedel:
Posted by JoeKv99 2012-12-14 11:58:16

Anyone remember when the Gershwin (AKA the Uris) was a "flop house"? It only takes one....

Michael Riedel:
Posted by jacobsnchz14 2012-12-14 13:38:29

What other current theatres would be considered flop houses? I would think the Marquis...

Michael Riedel:
Posted by Sondheim_Geek 2012-12-14 13:44:03

Belasco?

Michael Riedel:
Posted by WOSQ 2012-12-14 14:14:38

Historic flop houses (some have been 'rehabbed'):
Nederlander - Pre Rent & Newsies, this was the most unloved of all houses
Lunt
Belasco
Cort
Longacre
Ambassador - I know, Chicago, but here is an example of a hit show moving to a less desireable house and bringing its substantial word-of-mouth with it.

and in the long ago:
Hirschfield-Beck
ANTA-Virginia-Wilson - Both before Jujamcyn bought them

Michael Riedel:
Posted by bobs3 2012-12-14 17:39:04

The Ritz was probably the most undesirable theater on Broadway until Jujamcyn bought the house, refurbished it and renamed it the the Walter Kerr.

Michael Riedel:
Posted by AEA AGMA SM 2012-12-14 18:02:34

The Minskoff seemed to house a slew of flops before The Lion King took residence there.

Michael Riedel:
Posted by ACL2006 2012-12-14 18:13:05

The Marquis is the first one that comes to mind. When was the last time that theater had a successful show??

Michael Riedel:
Posted by qolbinau 2012-12-14 18:30:14

Michael Riedel:
Posted by Gothampc 2012-12-14 18:58:53

The Hellinger was a flop house and then a church bought it.

Once Sugar Babies closed in August 1982, nothing stayed more than six months and finally in Februay 1989 Legs Diamond closed it down as a theater.

Michael Riedel:
Posted by GavestonPS 2012-12-14 19:23:48

I'm curious where the direction of causality is. That is, are shows flopping because they are in these 'undesirable houses', or do the shows that tend to get undesirable houses (e.g. for competition reasons) tend to be the kind of shows that flop?

I think there's some truth that theaters to the east of Broadway (are there any left?) tend to see less last-minute walk-in trade, but mostly I think it's a matter of superstition and availability. A theater has a couple of flops, so it's free and available for the weakest entries of the next season and has several more flops. Etc. and so forth until an unexpected hit plays there and everyone forgets it is a "flop house".

Aside from people like those who post here, I'd wager that most of the public doesn't know one theater from another. They hear about the shows/stars and choose a theater only because of the show presented there.

Michael Riedel:
Posted by perfectlymarvelous 2012-12-14 19:51:43

Gaveston, there are three Broadway houses that are east of Broadway still, the Cort, the Belasco, and the Lyceum. I believe they are the only ones, and then of course the Hirschfeld is the other oddball and is west of 8th.

don't forget the Sondheim
Posted by MarkBearSF 2012-12-14 22:18:44

AKA Henry James's Theatre, AKA Kit Kat Klub

don't forget the Sondheim
Posted by GavestonPS 2012-12-14 22:48:05

Thank you, perfectlymarvelous. I'm embarrassed to admit that even when I lived in NYC for 8 years (70s-80s), I couldn't keep all those theaters straight. Of course I knew the difference between the Uris and the Winter Garden. But some of the smaller, "straight play" houses were easily confused in my mind.

And hence why I think the general public chooses a play, not a theater.

don't forget the Sondheim
Posted by perfectlymarvelous 2012-12-14 22:56:22

Damn, I felt like I was forgetting one, haha. So there are four, not three, that are east of Broadway.

And Gaveston, I am obviously the same...I've been coming to the city all my life and I've lived here for about 4.5 years and still can't keep some of the Broadway houses straight in my mind, especially the ones where I've only seen a show or two.

don't forget the Sondheim
Posted by frogs_fan85 2012-12-15 00:00:21

The Marquis is the first one that comes to mind. When was the last time that theater had a successful show??

THE DROWSY CHAPERONE, so it's been five years.

don't forget the Sondheim
Posted by Smaxie 2012-12-15 00:08:13

Henry Miller's Theatre, not Henry James.

don't forget the Sondheim
Posted by carousel94 2012-12-15 01:52:49

Stephen Sondheim Theatre, not Henry Miller's

don't forget the Sondheim
Posted by EricMontreal22 2012-12-15 05:21:12

"Aside from people like those who post here, I'd wager that most of the public doesn't know one theater from another. They hear about the shows/stars and choose a theater only because of the show presented there."

I certainly don't--pretty much all I know is that the Gershwin is huge.

don't forget the Sondheim
Posted by RippedMan 2012-12-15 13:57:33

Weird side note: Does anyone have a picture of the URIS Theater marquee?

don't forget the Sondheim
Posted by Sant 2012-12-15 14:41:25

Ripped: here's one. Not a very good one though, but it's pretty much the only one I could find with the title "Uris" on it.

http://www.chuckpulin.com/photos.php?photo=5110&origin=%2Fphotos.php%3Fview%3Dsheet%26start%3D1584

don't forget the Sondheim
Posted by RippedMan 2012-12-16 03:56:37

Interesting. Always though the Gershwin and Circle in the Square had awful street life, but I guess it's always been that way.

And back to the thread, I just wish theater architect's, etc, would realize that we don't need bigger theaters. Like the Book of Mormon, it's better to be in a smaller theater and selling out everyday than be in some huge barn.

don't forget the Sondheim
Posted by hushpuppy 2012-12-16 11:47:12

I'm not sure it's fair to characterize a theater as a 'flop house' once it's been around for over 50 years. WOSQ cited the Lunt-Fontanne, which reopened as a legit house in 1957. Since then it's had some long-running hits (THE SOUND OF MUSIC, BEAUTY AND THE BEAST), a bunch of solid runs (TITANIC, THE LITTLE MERMAID, THE ADDAMS FAMILY), and some real train wrecks (AIN'T BROADWAY GRAND, A BROADWAY MUSICAL, PEG). But all of those shows probably landed at the Lunt for economic and scheduling reasons, and the hits would've been hits in any house and the flops would've flopped no matter where they played. Over the years, any theater will have its share of hits and misses

don't forget the Sondheim
Posted by Jonwo 2012-12-16 11:58:13

I think producers prefer theatres which are midsized like the Shubert or Lunt rather than big theatres which are difficult to fill. Broadway does seem to have more midsized theatres but the theatres with big capacity aren't as big compared to regional theatres like the Pantages or Curran or West End theatres like Drury Lane, Dominion etc.

don't forget the Sondheim
Posted by roadmixer 2012-12-16 20:54:16

The St. James has been pretty floppy lately...

don't forget the Sondheim
Posted by ucjrdude902 2012-12-16 22:01:49

What was the last hit for that place? Gypsy?

don't forget the Sondheim
Posted by qolbinau 2012-12-16 22:02:51

GYPSY wasn't a hit.

don't forget the Sondheim
Posted by allofmylife 2012-12-17 03:57:01

It may not have made any money but the third performance of Sweeney Todd at the Uris was one of my greatest memories of theater on Broadway.

don't forget the Sondheim
Posted by GavestonPS 2012-12-17 07:28:59

Mine, too, allofmylife, and every other time I saw it. The Uris didn't seem too big for SWEENEY or PORGY AND BESS.

don't forget the Sondheim
Posted by broadwaydevil 2012-12-17 12:54:14

The St. James' last hit was The Producers.

don't forget the Sondheim
Posted by Phantom of London 2012-12-17 14:23:41

Would it be fair to say that The Lunt Fontanne hasn't originated a hit show since The Sound Of Music?